Renault protests against Haas

[Sniffit]

Seemingly Sauber have a few non compliant parts as well.

Do you have any source for these claims?

[johnny vee]

Hence why I think all Technical Directives need to be published as open source on the FIA website.

This area of the sport has always been closed off to the public, and needed to be opened up and more transparent. What did TD/033-18 say, what was discussed around it, who asked for it??? We need to know.

+1

[WaikeCU]

Id say, scrutineering passed = legal.

Sour grapes from a terrible team and manufacturer that can't get their sh*t together...

I bet Ricciardo is seriously questioning his choice at this point...

So when someone has something ilegal they should keep their mouth shut and not to protest

No, scrutineering should not allow anything illegal to pass inspection... That's the entire point of the process. To insure all competitors adhere to the Formula.

Then the panel who gave green light after scrutineering should be sacked.

[lio007]

A conspiray theory:
Budkowski has still some contacts within the FIA, and he or Renault uses this contacts and internal informations. Given you really have to know where to look at to find out if your competitor is within the regulations or not, especially in the Haas-case.

...that would be a big scandal if this would be the case. A multi-billion Dollar Business rulled and controlled by a "corrupt" organization.

[turbof1]

So some thoughts from me:

-Not legal means it is not legal. A technical infringement that got noticed has always led to DSQ. HAAS knew this and even though they did not get answer from the FIA, they had the chance at Spa to talk this over with Charlie Whiting. Even before scrutiny and race at Monza they had time to ask Whiting. HAAS will probably had its reasons for asking for more time, but if you don't get an answer on a legality conflict that could very well lead to disqualification while you are in a tight battle for 4th in the constructors, you really should keep asking until you atleast get an answer. It could either have led to a new technical directive leading to a postponement, or HAAS forced to make cuts in their bodywork.

-It goes without saying even though the responsibility is put in HAAS' hands, the FIA should have reacted on the inquery. HAAS asking for a postponement is fair given the factory has to shut down during the summer break. The FIA could simply have said "the deadline is still Monza" and then HAAS would simply have needed to find a way to deal with it.

-Although scrutiny should not be the last line of check ups, I don't get why the car got through scrutiny in the first place. The Technical Directive kicked in this weekend. You would expect the people involved with the scrutiny to be briefed on this and getting instructions to specifically pay attention to this. Renault asking afterwards to check on it is completely acceptable for that matter.

[marmer]

What goes around comes around Renault are running out of friends in f1.

Lost red bull lost str
McLaren only using as it's only choice and now looks like they should have stayed with honda
Everyone else is happy with there engines and things like this won't help in future

[henry]

I think the the FIA technical department are being consistent. My understanding is that they do not decide if a car is legal or not. The stewards have that responsibility. If during scrutineering they find something they send a report to the stewards and they decide on legality or not.

It would appear that they, FIA tech, found an area of the car where the regulation admitted to more than one interpretation. So they added a clarification in a TD. In effect this says that when they come to report to the stewards that they will advise them that, in their opinion, the interpretation in the TD is the one intended in the rules. They told the teams about this and said that from the next race, Monza, be aware that this, the TD, is the advice we’ll give the stewards.

In scrutineering they checked against the regulations. The Haas passed because it matched one of the interpretations of the regulation. The scrutineering can only refer to the stewards if there is no possible interpretation. So Haas raced and then Renault made a complaint to the stewards and the FIA tech were summoned to offer their opinion on how the rule should be interpreted. This is why TDs are referred to as advisory.

This ruling can be appealed and it will go to the Sporting council who will, from first principles, consider how the rule should be interpreted taking into account advice from interested parties including the TD.

That is why Haas were not disqualified at scrutineering and why it took a competitor to challenge their legality.

[Neno]

What goes around comes around Renault are running out of friends in f1.

Lost red bull lost str
McLaren only using as it's only choice and now looks like they should have stayed with honda
Everyone else is happy with there engines and things like this won't help in future

Friends? This isnt shounen manga and power of friendship will win us title.

[Red Rock Mutley]

I feel there is a misunderstanding on what happens during Scrutineering. It's a continual process that occurs throughout the event, starting with Initial Scrutineering on Thursday and running through to Post-Race Scrutineering on Sunday. Primarily it's a management exercise - the FIA can't check every car for full compliance to the regulations because it would take too long, and the cars would be in pieces, so they use a targeted approach to break the task down over the course of a season. Most cars are covered to a large extent, the ones at the front of the field receive more attention

Initial scrutineering is a logistics and safety exercise - the entrant declares the equipment entered in to the event and it's summarily checked for safety and broad compliance to the sporting regulations; i.e. is it an F1 car in the broad sense. The FIA report from Initial Scrutineering for last weekend's race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72288/download?token=CH3uAuw4

During the course of the event, the FIA Scrutineering team will take a view on the cars and decide what points they want to cover in detail. It's important to point out no competition has taken place at this time, so while the cars have to be eligible at all times, minor non-compliance at this stage may be dealt with by a guiding hand. Ideally, as much controversy as possible should be ironed out during free practice, and the Scrutineering team content that the entrants have been given the opportunity to correct genuine errors and omissions. The FIA report from P1 & P2 can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72357/downloa ... =acD-Be9v

Qualifying is where it all becomes serious and that's reflected by an increased level of scrutiny. The FIA Scrutineering team will cover the basics and all the items they've identified throughout the build up. The cars must be fully compliant, although there are practical limits to the depth of scrutiny. The FIA report from Qualifying can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72385/downloa ... =pgjMcTv0

Post-Race Scrutineering: This is the first chance the FIA have to check everything and anything on the car. Potentially it can be a full strip and eligibility check of every single component, although again, in practice a targeted approach is used. The entrant can expect any non-compliance found at this stage will result in a penalty - in the case of a technical non-conformity (to the technical rules), that would normally result in exclusion from the results on the basis that the car was ineligible for that competition. The FIA report from the race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72436/downloa ... =EHqFQZXL

[Big Tea]

I feel there is a misunderstanding on when happens during Scrutineering. It's a continual process that occurs throughout the event, starting with Initial Scrutineering on Thursday and running through to Post-Race Scrutineering on Sunday. Primarily it's a management exercise - the FIA can't check every car for full compliance to the regulations because it would take too long, and the cars would be in pieces, so they use a targeted approach to break the task down over the course of a season. Most cars are covered to a large extent, the ones are the front of the field receive more attention

Initial scrutineering is a logistics and safety exercise - the entrant declares the equipment entered in to the event and it's summarily checked for safety and broad compliance to the sporting regulations; i.e. is it an F1 car in the broad sense. The FIA report from Initial Scrutineering for last weekend's race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72288/download?token=CH3uAuw4

During the course of the event, the FIA Scrutineering team will take a view on the cars and decide what points they want to cover in detail. It's important to point out no competition has taken place at this time, so while the cars have to be eligible at all times, minor non-compliance at this stage may be dealt with by a guiding hand. Ideally, as much controversy as possible should be ironed out during free practice, and the Scrutineering team content that the entrants have been given the opportunity to correct genuine errors and omissions. The FIA report from P1 & P2 can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72357/downloa ... =acD-Be9v

Qualifying is where it all becomes serious and that's reflected by an increased level of scrutiny. The FIA Scrutineering team will cover the basics and all the items they've identified throughout the build up. The cars must be fully compliant, although there are practical limits to the depth of scrutiny. The FIA report from Qualifying can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72385/downloa ... =pgjMcTv0

Post-Race Scrutineering: This is the first chance the FIA have to check everything and anything on the car. Potentially it can be a full strip and eligibility check of every single component, although again, in practice a targeted approach is used. The entrant can expect any non-compliance found at this stage will result in a penalty - in the case of a technical non-conformity (to the technical rules), that would normally result in exclusion from the results on the basis that the car was ineligible for that competition. The FIA report from the race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72436/downloa ... =EHqFQZXL

There is some really interesting stuff there, Thanks. Is there a central point where new release reports are available or do I need to search individually? I had a 'quick' look on fia com but can not see an obvious point.

[ESPImperium]

Seemingly Sauber have a few non compliant parts as well.

Do you have any source for these claims?

Jennie Gow said something on Twitter. But apart from that, nothing. I’m sure there are are Chinese Whispers in the paddock that we don’t know of.

[Red Rock Mutley]

There is some really interesting stuff there, Thanks. Is there a central point where new release reports are available or do I need to search individually? I had a 'quick' look on fia com but can not see an obvious point.

The FIA have been pretty good publishing F1 event info over the years, although it's ebbed and flowed with each website redesign. It's currently in the "Event and Timing Information" sub-page under each Event. The Steward's reports are worth a look too

From fia.com follow the link via Sport > World Championships > F1 WC > Calendar > Italian GP > Event & Timing Information

Here's the direct link https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... rmation-29

[Big Tea]

There is some really interesting stuff there, Thanks. Is there a central point where new release reports are available or do I need to search individually? I had a 'quick' look on fia com but can not see an obvious point.

The FIA have been pretty good publishing F1 event info over the years, although it's ebbed and flowed with each website redesign. It's currently in the "Event and Timing Information" sub-page under each Event. The Steward's reports are worth a look too

From fia.com follow the link via Sport > World Championships > F1 WC > Calendar > Italian GP > Event & Timing Information

Here's the direct link https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... rmation-29

Thanks, appreciate that

[adrianjordan]

I feel there is a misunderstanding on what happens during Scrutineering. It's a continual process that occurs throughout the event, starting with Initial Scrutineering on Thursday and running through to Post-Race Scrutineering on Sunday. Primarily it's a management exercise - the FIA can't check every car for full compliance to the regulations because it would take too long, and the cars would be in pieces, so they use a targeted approach to break the task down over the course of a season. Most cars are covered to a large extent, the ones at the front of the field receive more attention

Initial scrutineering is a logistics and safety exercise - the entrant declares the equipment entered in to the event and it's summarily checked for safety and broad compliance to the sporting regulations; i.e. is it an F1 car in the broad sense. The FIA report from Initial Scrutineering for last weekend's race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72288/download?token=CH3uAuw4

During the course of the event, the FIA Scrutineering team will take a view on the cars and decide what points they want to cover in detail. It's important to point out no competition has taken place at this time, so while the cars have to be eligible at all times, minor non-compliance at this stage may be dealt with by a guiding hand. Ideally, as much controversy as possible should be ironed out during free practice, and the Scrutineering team content that the entrants have been given the opportunity to correct genuine errors and omissions. The FIA report from P1 & P2 can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72357/downloa ... =acD-Be9v

Qualifying is where it all becomes serious and that's reflected by an increased level of scrutiny. The FIA Scrutineering team will cover the basics and all the items they've identified throughout the build up. The cars must be fully compliant, although there are practical limits to the depth of scrutiny. The FIA report from Qualifying can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72385/downloa ... =pgjMcTv0

Post-Race Scrutineering: This is the first chance the FIA have to check everything and anything on the car. Potentially it can be a full strip and eligibility check of every single component, although again, in practice a targeted approach is used. The entrant can expect any non-compliance found at this stage will result in a penalty - in the case of a technical non-conformity (to the technical rules), that would normally result in exclusion from the results on the basis that the car was ineligible for that competition. The FIA report from the race can be viewed here https://www.fia.com/file/72436/downloa ... =EHqFQZXL

Very informative post, thank you.

With this in kind, you would have thought that one of the areas the stewards would have targeted this weekend would have been the area covered by the TD as it meant a change from previous interpretations...

[bill shoe]

Autosport has a good clear description of the technical issue itself. The front corners of the tea-tray are required to have a 50mm radius when seen from below. Issue in contention is whether this radius can be covered/eliminated by the mounting strut of nearby (and otherwise legal) bodywork such as foot plates, vortex generators, etc.?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13849 ... ed-illegal

Apparently Haas only went into the gray or illegal area when they introduced a new floor at the Canadian GP, so for Italy they obviously could have reverted to the pre-Canada floor to ensure their legality. I don't really blame Haas for taking a bit of a calculated risk in Italy, but if it didn't work out there's nobody to blame but themselves.

This may have been the first time that a Technical Directive was actually used to support a protest, and it was good to see the TD upheld. Yes the overall rules process and lack of TD transparency still stinks.