McLaren MCL33

[DarkAlman]

Does anyone have a comparison of gear ratios run by the Renault PU users?

There is talk of McLaren getting it wron, but I don't recall seeing a comparison.

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

[ESPImperium]

Does anyone have a comparison of gear ratios run by the Renault PU users?

There is talk of McLaren getting it wron, but I don't recall seeing a comparison.

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

My guess is that it would be anywhere between three tenths at say Austria and six tenths at say Monza, however at Monaco, Hungary and tracks that it may be more optimal. I might be a half tenth too optimistic on that figure.

Ive always been a fan of allowing the teams to have a single joker to change the gear ratios, or change maybe two or three ratios by a certain race, say Montreal as the race you can change them.

I have a feeling that McLaren have really started working on certain elements of next years car right now and are treating races as a test event.

[Jackles-UK]

Maybe the drag issue that has been so widely reported on here is actually caused by the gearing? That could be a reason as to why there were better results/performances at ‘point-and-squirt’ street tracks such as Australia, Baku (despite a load of damage) & Singapore where the McLaren could jump up and down through the gears quicker rather than at tracks like Germany, France etc. where you’d be in gears 6-8 more often. What definitely appeared “draggy” on the TV feeds could just be a mechanical plateau on the top end and would also give credence the the whole “fundamental flaw that we can’t fix this year” quote.

[charliesmithhd]

Are you allowed to test different ratios at winter testing?

[Jolle]

Are you allowed to test different ratios at winter testing?

As much as you like. There is no PU or GB limit in testing.

[mwillems]

Is it also possible that the gearbox was designed to help alleviate or enhance characteristics that were specific to the Honda engine, given the short timeframe for the engine swap, that the gearbox didn't suit the Renault engine, not including ratios?

[diffuser]

Is it also possible that the gearbox was designed to help alleviate or enhance characteristics that were specific to the Honda engine, given the short time frame for the engine swap, that the gearbox didn't suit the Renault engine, not including ratios?

I read they just took last years gearbox and made the bell housing longer.

[M840TR]

Is it also possible that the gearbox was designed to help alleviate or enhance characteristics that were specific to the Honda engine, given the short time frame for the engine swap, that the gearbox didn't suit the Renault engine, not including ratios?

I read they just took last years gearbox and made the bell housing longer.

I think it was Goss after the Renault deal was announced. Lots of talk about how easy it would be to swap engines. "Only the bell housing will be lengthened", "the engine has the compressor at the back so we'll have more fuel capacity" etc etc.

[DiogoBrand]

Does anyone have a comparison of gear ratios run by the Renault PU users?

There is talk of McLaren getting it wron, but I don't recall seeing a comparison.

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

My guess is that it would be anywhere between three tenths at say Austria and six tenths at say Monza, however at Monaco, Hungary and tracks that it may be more optimal. I might be a half tenth too optimistic on that figure.

Ive always been a fan of allowing the teams to have a single joker to change the gear ratios, or change maybe two or three ratios by a certain race, say Montreal as the race you can change them.

I have a feeling that McLaren have really started working on certain elements of next years car right now and are treating races as a test event.

You'd have to get the gear ratios catastophically wrong to lose 6 tenths, especially with 8 gears and how these PUs have a big overlap between the gears.
They may be losing some time with this issue, but I wouldn't expect it to be more than 2 tenths, maybe 3 at Monza.

[restless]

Does anyone have a comparison of gear ratios run by the Renault PU users?

There is talk of McLaren getting it wron, but I don't recall seeing a comparison.

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

Yea... and Torro Rosso who started way later and whose budget is twice smaller managed to do it the right way ...

I'd rather believe that Renault gave them projected/expected power& torque graph for the expected "ICE on Merc/Ferrari level" and then Mclaren optimized gear ratios for this much stronger engine... which never materialized on the track

[Edax]

Does anyone have a comparison of gear ratios run by the Renault PU users?

There is talk of McLaren getting it wron, but I don't recall seeing a comparison.

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

Yea... and Torro Rosso who started way later and whose budget is twice smaller managed to do it the right way ...

I'd rather believe that Renault gave them projected/expected power& torque graph for the expected "ICE on Merc/Ferrari level" and then Mclaren optimized gear ratios for this much stronger engine... which never materialized on the track

I find it hard to believe that Renault gave them the wrong numbers at the onset, as they should have time to test before committing to the gear ratio’s. Then it is either a very clumsy mistake or a deliberate choice.

Wouldn’t it be the case that they started the season anticipating to shed a lot of drag with the new nose and aero package, as well als being optimistic on Renault in-season progress. That would be a motivation to select less than ideal gears at the start of the season.

[Jolle]

Gil de Ferran confirmed as much in an interview this week that McLaren have a sub-optimal gear ratio selection in the car that is limiting them on long straights.

Given what we've been hearing about getting a completely new gearbox design next year I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the current Gearbox, and possibly even the ratio selection, was meant for the Honda PU and they didn't have enough time pre-season to optimize the package for the Renault PU.

So the question becomes how many tenths is that leaving on the table by itself?

Yea... and Torro Rosso who started way later and whose budget is twice smaller managed to do it the right way ...

I'd rather believe that Renault gave them projected/expected power& torque graph for the expected "ICE on Merc/Ferrari level" and then Mclaren optimized gear ratios for this much stronger engine... which never materialized on the track

I find it hard to believe that Renault gave them the wrong numbers at the onset, as they should have time to test before committing to the gear ratio’s. Then it is either a very clumsy mistake or a deliberate choice.

Wouldn’t it be the case that they started the season anticipating to shed a lot of drag with the new nose and aero package, as well als being optimistic on Renault in-season progress. That would be a motivation to select less than ideal gears at the start of the season.

Wasn’t Mclaren destroying clutches on a certain track a couple of years ago because of a, for that corner, bad gear ratios? It might even been still in ‘14 I think.

If the gearbox hasn’t got optimum ratios it’s probably down to not the expected aero efficiency combined with less power the expected. Basically a combination of two of the three problems that’s keeping the MCL33 at the back (bad aero efficiency, lack of power and lack of mechanical grip). It certainly isn’t the magic problem.

[restless]

Yea... and Torro Rosso who started way later and whose budget is twice smaller managed to do it the right way ...

I'd rather believe that Renault gave them projected/expected power& torque graph for the expected "ICE on Merc/Ferrari level" and then Mclaren optimized gear ratios for this much stronger engine... which never materialized on the track

I find it hard to believe that Renault gave them the wrong numbers at the onset, as they should have time to test before committing to the gear ratio’s. Then it is either a very clumsy mistake or a deliberate choice.

Wouldn’t it be the case that they started the season anticipating to shed a lot of drag with the new nose and aero package, as well als being optimistic on Renault in-season progress. That would be a motivation to select less than ideal gears at the start of the season.

That was my point but I clumsy explained it, much better wording from you

[diffuser]

Yea... and Torro Rosso who started way later and whose budget is twice smaller managed to do it the right way ...

I'd rather believe that Renault gave them projected/expected power& torque graph for the expected "ICE on Merc/Ferrari level" and then Mclaren optimized gear ratios for this much stronger engine... which never materialized on the track

I find it hard to believe that Renault gave them the wrong numbers at the onset, as they should have time to test before committing to the gear ratio’s. Then it is either a very clumsy mistake or a deliberate choice.

Wouldn’t it be the case that they started the season anticipating to shed a lot of drag with the new nose and aero package, as well als being optimistic on Renault in-season progress. That would be a motivation to select less than ideal gears at the start of the season.

That was my point but I clumsy explained it, much better wording from you

They didn't believe they had a drag issue. That's why they changed PUs. That being said ... My definition of a gearbox ratio problem would be one that is larger than something that can be fixed by reduction of drag.

[M840TR]

I find it hard to believe that Renault gave them the wrong numbers at the onset, as they should have time to test before committing to the gear ratio’s. Then it is either a very clumsy mistake or a deliberate choice.

Wouldn’t it be the case that they started the season anticipating to shed a lot of drag with the new nose and aero package, as well als being optimistic on Renault in-season progress. That would be a motivation to select less than ideal gears at the start of the season.

That was my point but I clumsy explained it, much better wording from you

They didn't believe they had a drag issue. That's why they changed PUs. That being said ... My definition of a gearbox ratio problem would be one that is larger than something that can be fixed by reduction of drag.

I think it's more severe this year. That's why they could only improve by 1 tenth in Spa over last year even with a much better engine.