Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

emmm , with being penalized and in Suzuka which has 0 opportunity to overtake ? . It's not a sensible idea
Russia will be the best place to introduce Spec 3 because it'll be a real test for the new engine

There's only 2 real straights.

3rd most power sensitive circuit after Spa and Monza.

How good is this circuit for harvesting energy? Spa and Monza don't have many braking opportunities ~ 4 or 5 for either circuit.

[saviour stivala]

Why is lack of or less braking going to suddenly effect harvesting? I was given to believe that they can harvest when not braking and also that they can harvest more than what is permitted.

[godlameroso]

Why is lack of or less braking going to suddenly effect harvesting? I was given to believe that they can harvest when not braking and also that they can harvest more than what is permitted.

Because it's more efficient to harvest under braking, since the two acts compliment each other. Sure they can harvest while not braking as in sector 3 or coming out of corners to try to limit wheel spin. If by braking alone you can harvest 2 or nearly 2MJ that gives you a lot more flexibility as far as generating electrical energy for the ES by other means.

[dren]

There was a video of Gasly's car on reddit that showed his ES bar on his steering wheel at Monza. You could see how much it'd drain when he'd press the overtake button (I assume this puts the car into e-boost mode), and it also looked like the ES was charging during the braking event and through the chicanes. Makes sense since there is little braking for K generation there. I'm sure it's always a balance of when to overrun the ICE for K generation vs K motoring down the straights vs fuel weight over a race distance.

[saviour stivala]

Push-to-pass/ overtake/defend button is the fastest way to drain ES as both "K" and "H" are together and at the same time sharing ES power.
The ES is always being charged when braking.

Braking does not make the "K" generate. it makes it harvest.

[dren]

So the K doesn't act as a generator during braking events? Should I call it a harvester and deployer?

[saviour stivala]

The "K" harvests when braking (generator) and deploy when Accelerating (motor). (MGU/MOTOR GENERATOR UNIT)

[subcritical71]

So the K doesn't act as a generator during braking events? Should I call it a harvester and deployer?

It’s now a DHU-K!? A ‘duck’, that is a bit easier to say

[lucafo]

Why is lack of or less braking going to suddenly effect harvesting? I was given to believe that they can harvest when not braking and also that they can harvest more than what is permitted.

This comment makes sense.
In a track like Monza, where harvesting opportunities are minimal, why not use the 8th gear for small harvest, for exemple, and use this energy for speeding up at low gears?

[saviour stivala]

So the K doesn't act as a generator during braking events? Should I call it a harvester and deployer?

It’s now a DHU-K!? A ‘duck’, that is a bit easier to say

I do say it’s now more akin to a hamburger.

[saviour stivala]

When a formula one car is being driven in 8th gear the driver is trying to attain the highest speed possible, trying to attain the highest speed possible is trying to extract the maximum power output possible from the power unit, using the “K” to harvest in that situation is robbing power unit output. But it can be done by the driver using both feet, one on the brake pedal and one on the accelerator pedal. Although not in 8th gear when trying to achieve maximum speed, In Hungary free practice Vandoorne had been harvesting by the “K” like that (using both feet) but he ran into some drama because he pressed brake pedal to hard and triggered the rear brake by wire failsafe system which cuts the engine off, this fail safe system is the system that was out of order and so not functioning on Julies B Marusia in Japan.

[subcritical71]

Here is why I’m skeptical on the driver needing to press the brake pedal to get K to generate. Say they have the DRS open and get to the point where they have attained their top speed (either physically or by their rnerfy strategy) and now want to generate with the K. If they then have to push the brake to do this the DRS wing returns to its normal position. I would think a better way to do the K strategy is via track position vs speed vs brake position and not relying on driver input for normal usage scenarios. If they want to give the driver an override mode that would also make sense, be it a push button or similar.

[PlatinumZealot]

When a formula one car is being driven in 8th gear the driver is trying to attain the highest speed possible, trying to attain the highest speed possible is trying to extract the maximum power output possible from the power unit, using the “K” to harvest in that situation is robbing power unit output. But it can be done by the driver using both feet, one on the brake pedal and one on the accelerator pedal. Although not in 8th gear when trying to achieve maximum speed, In Hungary free practice Vandoorne had been harvesting by the “K” like that (using both feet) but he ran into some drama because he pressed brake pedal to hard and triggered the rear brake by wire failsafe system which cuts the engine off, this fail safe system is the system that was out of order and so not functioning on Julies B Marusia in Japan.

I think you have this as a videogame my friend. The brake pedal is not some button you press when you wsnt to harvest you know!
Vandoornes was told to reduce his left foot braking in the corners. Left foot braking works AGAINST the engine power and as such it wastes energy amd fuel. Drivers avoid left foot braking when they want to save fuel.

The ERS will also havest on the straights in lift and coast. And it can also harvest in acceration there is traction limits and enough turbo boost if i am correct.

[AJI]

...using the “K” to harvest in that situation is robbing power unit output. But it can be done by the driver using both feet, one on the brake pedal and one on the accelerator pedal.

Why must you persist with this as the main K harvesting triggering mechanism when we know it can be done a multitude of different ways?

...Although not in 8th gear when trying to achieve maximum speed...

Are you introducing an exception to the rule with this statement? What about tracks where 8th gear is not used?

...In Hungary free practice Vandoorne had been harvesting by the “K” like that (using both feet) but he ran into some drama because he pressed brake pedal to hard and triggered the rear brake by wire failsafe system which cuts the engine off...

We've heard you cite this many times as the main evidence for your 'both feet on both pedals simultaneously for K harvest' theory. What about last year when Alonso's car went into unexpected harvest because he took a corner flat when he normally only lifted slightly, which in-turn confused the car's K harvest mapping?

... this fail safe system is the system that was out of order and so not functioning on Julies B Marusia in Japan.

I have heard nothing of this, but are you suggesting that this was a contributing factor in JB's death?

[saviour stivala]

On this here technical discussion forum I have expressed my personal opinion on the “K” deployment/harvesting function. Am I allowed to do that? It is not like I expressed my opinion as “WE”, it is only my personal opinion.
Reasons as to my personal opinion about the subject at hand: policy of statement of intent and its implementation as a procedure of protocol. “The MGU-K (where the “K” stands for kinetic) converting kinetic energy generated under braking into electricity (rather than it escaping as heat”. In my personal opinion any energy harvested other than by using the brake pedal goes against the above declared policy of statement of intent. Also my opinion, power unit mapping is track dependent and is optimized for given track to minimize lap time, the MGU-K two functions (harvesting and deployment) is mapped into the two driver’s pedals (brake and accelerator pedals). It is these two pedals that triggers both deployment and harvesting, the MGU-K can be used as a generator only while braking.
Vandoorne Hungary free practice driver to pit/pit to driver radio: “I have no deployment, no power” “do not press the brakes to hard under throttle” his rear brake-by-wire failsafe system was triggered and the engine was cut, this while he was trying to get some extra harvesting.
Jules Bianchi: for detail about the contribution of the Marussia failed rear brake-by-wire failsafe system to the accident refer to FIA panel of experts report findings of 03/12/14.