When a spectacle becomes a parody of his own

[Andres125sx]

You can obsess about the 11 seconds, but in reality, they were only about 4-5 seconds slower than they could have been

Only 4-5 seconds.... In F1 4-5 tenths used to be a huge difference, now 10 times that is ok?

Lets just leave it at that, that you don't like street circuits where overtaking is practically not possible and allow driving to a slower delta for strategic reasons, rather than arguing arbitrary numbers as if they mean anything.

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

[Andres125sx]

I really don't get what the problem is.

The problem is this

Well, teams thought it was the quickest strategy.

Teams thought it was the quickest strategy because it was, but that´s true because of the track, cars overtake delta and tires with artificial wear.

At a normal track, or with a normal overtake delta (0.5-1 second), that would have never been the quickest strategy. It´s only the extreme difficulty to overtake what makes possible strategies like this.

Yes it is Singapore, a track wich is not standard, but the problem is there for every track, only that at tracks like Singapore it is more obvious. But it is the same at every track, dirty air and artificial tires determine best strategy, wich is at a vast mayority of tracks, doing as few pitstops as possible.

Strategic differences have almost dissapeared and only another artificia rule (top 10 cars who cannot choose the tire to start the race) make any difference. Well and cars at the back with nothing to loose. Generally speaking obviously, there will always be exceptions, but the trend is obvious to me, Singapore was only the slap on the face for those who negate this trend, IMHO.

[Phil]

No, they don't, because lets face it; racing is to some degree endurance. This isn't anything new, it's been especially the case since Pirelli entered the sport and refueling was banned. You now have tires that have finite tire life, narrow temperature window and a cliff at the end of it. This all in the name of the "spectacle", to enhance the entertainment, to increase the probability that cars end up in traffic and have to pass other cars. If we didn't have that, we'd have boring processions where the lead cars would disappear off into the distance with no reason for them to stop (and if they did, they would ahead of everyone else, hence no overtaking).

And do you know what? It works. We have exciting races for the most part, but because racing isn't exact science, we have a few tracks where we can't have the same level of entertainment to satisfy every single fan out there in the name of track diversity.

The tire element, means that because tires have a very narrow performance window, drivers get to drive strategically. Instead of pushing all out and ruin their tires in 4 laps, they can drive at 50% (if the track allows it) to get a more track time out of them. They can even drive slower at various parts to have more performance when they need it, i.e. to perform an overtake. This is no different, than having 100kg of fuel and choosing how and when to use it. Some use more at the beginning (drive at a higher performance rate), some use it at the end. The tire element is no different in reality. Same applies to engines that need to last 1/3rd of the whole season and why drivers that are far into the lead tend to turn down their engines to save them for another day.

All these factors lead to performance fluctuations in lap delta. A car at full weight with full fuel will be slower than a car half empty. A car using maximum performance with special qualifying mode is also quicker - these modes are not for the race, as they come at the risk/compromise of engine life. A second here or there, does it really matter? Cars driving at 100% of what the material allows is a hoax. It doesn't exist. It probably never has, as there is always a compromise between material over the season vs. on the given day and lap.

What most in here are advocating simply doesn't exist or would make the races way more predictable and boring. Unlimited engines, unlimited money/resources, super durable tires that last the whole race? Hello races with no overtaking. But hey, at least they'll be driving 5 seconds a lap quicker the entire time.

Thanks, but I'd rather have what we have now; Diverse races, different strategies at play, good overtakes every now and then and some races in between where the order is exactly as expected.

[Andres125sx]

Agree with that, it´s only that I would prefer if instead of patching the problem with artificial rules (DRS, artificial tires, top cars who can´t choose the tire...) they´d face the real problem and solve it so artificial rules are not needed. A more fair money distribution would also help a lot

I´d prefer slower cars (less aero) wich don´t need artificial rules to provide artificial entertainment. Take DRS as an example, it´s make up overtaking numbers, but I do prefer 1 real on track battle to 10 DRS overtakes

[nokivasara]

Agree with that, it´s only that I would prefer if instead of patching the problem with artificial rules (DRS, artificial tires, top cars who can´t choose the tire...) they´d face the real problem and solve it so artificial rules are not needed. A more fair money distribution would also help a lot

I´d prefer slower cars (less aero) wich don´t need artificial rules to provide artificial entertainment. Take DRS as an example, it´s make up overtaking numbers, but I do prefer 1 real on track battle to 10 DRS overtakes

I agree.
The leaders drive to as slow a delta as possible, which is OK. You (as a team) want to race just as fast as it takes to win to minimize risk, thats fine IMO. The problem is that the others can't do much about it, if they make an extra pit stop to be able to run faster on softer tires the leader increases his speed just enough to stay ahead in the end, knowing that they will destroy their tires trying to get past. Unless there's rain or a safety car nothing out of the ordinary will happen...
F1 has reached a point where it is so well calculated that it gets boring. But I still watch it

[Just_a_fan]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.

Not sure why any of this is a surprise or a shock, really.

[AJI]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.
...

While I've always liked the idea of one point given for the fastest lap, I don't think it'll change the pace of the front runners.
From a WCC points collecting PoV, there is more likelihood of back markers coming in for very late pitstops, strapping on the fastest rubber, waiting for the perfect release window (even if that means parking the car in the pits for 20 seconds) and then slamming down one quali lap to try and grab that point for the team. It could add a fair bit of spice to the last stages of the race for anyone who doesn't have a hope of getting 9th or higher?

[Andres125sx]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.

Not sure why any of this is a surprise or a shock, really.

So you never use the app to watch laptimes and gaps during the race, right?

Laptimes are what makes car A faster or slower to car B. Since this is racing, I think it is important, don´t you?

[zac510]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.

Not sure why any of this is a surprise or a shock, really.

So you never use the app to watch laptimes and gaps during the race, right?

Laptimes are what makes car A faster or slower to car B. Since this is racing, I think it is important, don´t you?

You have misunderstood JaF's point. Over a single lap, yes the laptime is important. Over a race of dozens of laps, where points are only awarded only for the finishing position, the laptime doesn't matter.

[zac510]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.
...

While I've always liked the idea of one point given for the fastest lap, I don't think it'll change the pace of the front runners.
From a WCC points collecting PoV, there is more likelihood of back markers coming in for very late pitstops, strapping on the fastest rubber, waiting for the perfect release window (even if that means parking the car in the pits for 20 seconds) and then slamming down one quali lap to try and grab that point for the team. It could add a fair bit of spice to the last stages of the race for anyone who doesn't have a hope of getting 9th or higher?

Other series like Formula E, F2 etc have or used to have this rule so you can look to them to the teams deal with this kind of rule. In F1, I always thought there was the feeling amongst fans that points for fastest lap, pole etc would devalue the Sunday win. Most fans prefer to see the championship winner on the podium, for example, rather than doing a fastest/pole lap and the parking it because the championship is secure.
However I agree that a way to reward midfield teams during a race would be good.

[mertol]

Look losing 5 or 10 seconds per lap is only viable when you have shitty tires that you must save. If they had unlimited amount of tires they would just drive on the limit and pit every 6-7 laps. With 5 seconds per lap you can easily make up the time lost for pitting in 5 laps. It's not a problem of overtaking, street circuits, tactics or of endurance. It's entirely a problem of saving shitty tires. The teams spend millions to gain a couple of tenths but then they drive 10 seconds slower because of a piece of rubber.

[Just_a_fan]

Agree with the first part but... now laptimes are arbitrary numbers wich mean nothing??

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.

Not sure why any of this is a surprise or a shock, really.

So you never use the app to watch laptimes and gaps during the race, right?

Laptimes are what makes car A faster or slower to car B. Since this is racing, I think it is important, don´t you?

No need to down vote, but hey, whatever.

The point is that lap times aren't important over the course of the race. Differences in lap time (lap delta), yes, but not the actual time itself. If everyone does about a 1m30s lap then all that matters is whether someone is faster or slower than that time.

[Andres125sx]

The only time lap times mean anything is during qualifying. During the race, they mean nothing. Unless you give points for fastest lap, this will continue to be the case.

Not sure why any of this is a surprise or a shock, really.

So you never use the app to watch laptimes and gaps during the race, right?

Laptimes are what makes car A faster or slower to car B. Since this is racing, I think it is important, don´t you?

No need to down vote, but hey, whatever.

The point is that lap times aren't important over the course of the race. Differences in lap time (lap delta), yes, but not the actual time itself. If everyone does about a 1m30s lap then all that matters is whether someone is faster or slower than that time.

I did misunderstand it, downvote removed.

But to know laptime delta, you need to know laptimes first, so they´re important even in the race

Or it used to be, when they can be 5 seconds slower but even so none can try an overtake, then laptimes, and the race itself, become absurd

[browney]

Isn't the real issue that it is soo hard to overtake that no one can try and run a different strategy?

The leader can drive slowly to conserve tyres and no one can try and run a different strategy that compromises track position.

So basically, reduce down-force.........