Four Party Qualifying

[marvin78]

I can only shout out: Please don't "fix" the only thing that works.

[Andres125sx]

I miss that qualifying where they went out one by one. I know the problems it had, but maybe for the last Q, Q3 or Q4, whatever, they may did it this way, going out at the same order they´re in the WDC so it makes some sort of perfomance handicap and the chasers are a bit favoured compared to the leaders (hotter track, more rubber, more dry...)


I loved watching the cars one by one, and the added pressure of only one attempt per driver.

[marvin78]

I hated it because I always thought that it was not fair. I liked the 60 Minutes "everyone can drive when and so often they want" but I like the current format more.

[Sevach]

I would suggest getting rid of the q2 tyre rule, as I don't see what the brings at all?

It adds the strategic element, similar to during the refueling era when cars had to qualify on race-fuel.

Earlier the rule was that the fastest lap Q3 tire had to be used for the 1st stint of the race. This created the issue that perhaps some didn't push as hard, not wanting to damage the tire to compromise the first stint. Fans wanted the drivers to go all out, maximum speed in Q3 for a great battle between the top teams, so the rule was changed so that it's the Q2 tire that is used.

I think having to use the Q2 tire for the top10 is great. It adds a bit of excitement since teams have to consider wisely if they can risk running the more durable tire during the 2nd stint, like in Singapore. Obviously, now that the top 3 teams are far ahead of the rest, the risk is predictable, but imagine if the gap narrows, then Q2 will become much more exciting again.

I disagree, for me it only hurts the little guy, the mid grid teams that need everything to get in.
When a big team tries to make Q3 on a harder compound they usually do so early in the session so they can go back and put the softer one in case it's needed.

Very little risk and most of the time the teams that matter end up doing the same thing.

I think super qualifying on one lap would add some variability/up the risk, first session, all cars on track 30 m to set the fastest time, from 11-20 that's their grid position.

The top 10 do a super qualifying on one lap, one at a time, reverse order.

[wesley123]

“They’ve been doing a lot of research among fans, and they feel this is one of the things that the fans would like.

“Slightly shorter [sessions], slightly shorter time between them, four go out in Q1, four, four, leaving eight.

a.k.a they try to appeal to people who turn on the tv somewhere in the middle and after 5 minutes starts screaming there isn't enough overtaking.

They are trying to appeal to a group you can't ever appeal to. Because let's face it; If they were reachable, they would have been more content by now considering the amount of changes F1 has applied in the past decade.

So any change should make fans happy?

I assume they make changes to appeal to the majority of people watching and/or groups they are trying to reach.

But I'm not sure where that question comes from.

I can´t understand people like you who assume fans are stupid and don´t know what they want. Do you feel like that yourself?

Well considering how when something is done to appeal to a group, it either isn't good enough or want back to how it previously was. It is an endless circle.

So yeah, I consider that fans are stupid and shouldn't be asked what they want. It generally involves the thought 'I want x', without a thought of consequence of that choice.

Maybe, only maybe, fans get bored with races where there´s no change at all in more than one hour, and the only changes we see are caused by artificial rules like DRS wich means not even those changes are exciting.

Precisely my point; They listen to the fans and gave a solution. But no, they don't want that, even though they previously said something competely different.

Fans are not stupid, at least generally, even if their likings are different to yours

Well the desire that fans seem to have involves teams running a suboptimal strategy to improve overtaking, completely oblivious to the fact that it is a championship they are competing in and not a single race.
But, on the other hand they also want drivers to push the whole race, which results in larger gaps and thus, by extension, less overtaking.

The wishes of fans are an endless contradiction of itself.

Listening to a large group of people(millions+) has never ever been a good idea, partially because you are asking them to decide on things they know nothing about, and partially because in a large group of people you can never appeal to everyone.

So yeah, fans are stupid. And you can get all angry about it, but that doesn't change anything about the sheer incompetence of an outside group(and yes, that includes you and me) to make a decision on something they aren't actively and/or closely involved in.

[Andres125sx]

If you feel like a stupid yourself then I can´t help you. But I´m not. Maybe the problem is not the stupid fans, but your unbelieveble assumptions about what fans think, like this

Well the desire that fans seem to have involves teams running a suboptimal strategy to improve overtaking

When have you read something like that?


Fans (generally speaking) have never asked teams to run suboptimal strategies, fans ask for rules wich don´t cause teams to run strategies that involve a race pace around 5-6 seconds per lap slower than possible because the shitty tires, plus the enormous overtake delta, plus some tracks like Singapore make that strategy the optimal one


When people criticize those strategies, they´re not criticizing the teams who do the only thing they can do, they criticize the rulemakes who caused that situation

Take this proposal as an example, when have fans asked for a new qualifying modification? Never, it´s the rulemakers theirselves


This said, I partially agree, some fans are stupid, like any other group of people, including rulemakers, forum members, engineers, F1 drivers...

[Just_a_fan]

Fans are not stupid, at least generally

Actually, in general, fans are stupid. They'll come out with unrealistic broad brush wishes such as "we want cars that are the fastest ever and we also want lots of overtaking".

Individual fans can be very intelligent but as a mob, they're as dumb as rocks. That's just human nature, sadly.

[wesley123]

Well the desire that fans seem to have involves teams running a suboptimal strategy to improve overtaking

When have you read something like that?


Fans (generally speaking) have never asked teams to run suboptimal strategies

Fans require lots of overtaking and drivers fighting for positions every race. Or, in the example of Singapore require them to drive as fast as they can.

This equals a suboptimal strategy, because it requires the teams to do something that they rather don't. People can complain all they want, but why would anyone ever push harder or take more risk if the situation they are in at that moment is the one they aimed for or are content with?

When people criticize those strategies, they´re not criticizing the teams who do the only thing they can do, they criticize the rulemakes who caused that situation

To be fair, I can not think of a rule that would make the drivers run faster than they absolutely need.

[Nickel]

To be fair, I can not think of a rule that would make the drivers run faster than they absolutely need.

mandate a fuel tank size 5L bigger than now and mandate starting full to the gills? It would then be beneficial to push to burn off fuel.

just a thought.

[Cannonballer]

This feels like something driven by TV companies and advertising requirements. Just like the "start things at 10 minutes past the hour" to keep TV happy.

US media company takes on F1 and makes it fit US media requirements. Hardly a surprise.

Hiding it behind something "fans might like" is just smoke screen rubbish.

I don't disagree with you at all. But I want to point that the advertising situation is better for US audiences now that in years past. Prior to watching F1 on ESPN, the race was interrupted by regular commercial breaks (every 7-10 laps) which made it impossible to follow. So perhaps there is a slight chance that they could somehow increase advertising without ruining the show.

[Andres125sx]

Fans are not stupid, at least generally

Actually, in general, fans are stupid. They'll come out with unrealistic broad brush wishes such as "we want cars that are the fastest ever and we also want lots of overtaking".

Individual fans can be very intelligent but as a mob, they're as dumb as rocks. That's just human nature, sadly.

I´ve read many people, many times, complaining about fans because sometime he read from some fan F1 need more overtakes, and at a different moment he read some other fan saying F1 have to be faster. His conclusion was fans don´t know what they want, assuming what fan A think, and what fan B think, can be mixed and get a conclusion about what fans think generally

As you may understand, this is completely absurd, but it´s easier to assume the rest of the world is stupid, than arguing with different people about different opinions

[Andres125sx]

Well the desire that fans seem to have involves teams running a suboptimal strategy to improve overtaking

When have you read something like that?


Fans (generally speaking) have never asked teams to run suboptimal strategies

Fans require lots of overtaking and drivers fighting for positions every race. Or, in the example of Singapore require them to drive as fast as they can.

This equals a suboptimal strategy, because it requires the teams to do something that they rather don't. People can complain all they want, but why would anyone ever push harder or take more risk if the situation they are in at that moment is the one they aimed for or are content with?

When people criticize those strategies, they´re not criticizing the teams who do the only thing they can do, they criticize the rulemakes who caused that situation

To be fair, I can not think of a rule that would make the drivers run faster than they absolutely need.

Maybe you read that, I don´t click on race thread usually so maybe someone said something similar there, but I´ve never read anyone saying drivers should drive faster. But I´ve read people saying current F1 is ridiculous as drivers don´t need to driver as fast as they can. It is completely different, it is current F1 with current rules what is criticized, not drivers or teams

[Andres125sx]

To be fair, I can not think of a rule that would make the drivers run faster than they absolutely need.

mandate a fuel tank size 5L bigger than now and mandate starting full to the gills? It would then be beneficial to push to burn off fuel.

just a thought.

I can imagine a "fuel wasting mode" where they empty the tank without pushing the PU further than needed

[rscsr]

To be fair, I can not think of a rule that would make the drivers run faster than they absolutely need.

mandate a fuel tank size 5L bigger than now and mandate starting full to the gills? It would then be beneficial to push to burn off fuel.

just a thought.

I can imagine a "fuel wasting mode" where they empty the tank without pushing the PU further than needed

Don't they do it already? Whenever behind the safety car, they kinda just burn it off.

[zac510]

One thing about fans making suggestions about rules is that if they get the rule change wrong there is no downside. Fans love their sport, indeed, but they have no skin in the game.

If a fan suggests that aerodynamics should be reduced by 75% to improve overtaking, then maybe 1000 aerodynamicists in F1 will lose their jobs. This rule change has consequence for these engineers and their families. If the new rule change does not have the desired effect (of improving overtaking), the fan who proposed the rule will not suffer - he or she will get up on Monday morning and go about his day. But the aerodynamicist will be off to the Job Centre.

If a fan suggests the teams should re-introduce refuelling and the teams spend millions fitting it to the cars and pits and then we find that there was no improvement to the quality of racing, the teams have wasted millions and the fan has spent €0. The fan will get up in the morning and go to work feeling no guilt.

Without consequence, the opinion of a fan is pretty worthless.

(edit for grammar)