Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[MMMMMMMM]

They can throw whatever they want to throw at it.
Today’s race just showed how bad the hybrid is and how far behind Honda truly is in terms of sustained power. I was excited about the new ICE, but that’s cooling off as well, the extra horse power is only available for couple of laps at the expense of consumption making little impact on Sundays. I will not even open it on the reliability side, it’s just abysmal.

[Snorked]

Horner says on avg the Honda is 0.6s per lap faster than Renault at COTA:

https://streamable.com/r9945

[nzjrs]

They can throw whatever they want to throw at it.
Today’s race just showed how bad the hybrid is and how far behind Honda truly is in terms of sustained power. I was excited about the new ICE, but that’s cooling off as well, the extra horse power is only available for couple of laps at the expense of consumption making little impact on Sundays. I will not even open it on the reliability side, it’s just abysmal.

I wouldn't read that from Hartleys performance today.

edit: Just read your post history -> ignore.

[gandharva]

Horner says on avg the Honda is 0.6s per lap faster than Renault at COTA:

https://streamable.com/r9945

Brutal if true.

[AMG.Tzan]

Horner says on avg the Honda is 0.6s per lap faster than Renault at COTA:

https://streamable.com/r9945

Brutal if true.

I think Horner said that there was 0.6 gap between Red Bull and Toro Rosso at COTA...not that Honda is 0.6 faster than Renault! Still it is a big improvement for TR!!

[Sieper]

If I understand him correctly I think he is saying that would they (RBR) had the Honda 3.1 Instead of spec c Renault in the back in this race they would have been 0,6 seconds faster per lap.

Sounds like a big difference. Likely I misunderstand?

[gandharva]

I think Horner said that there was 0.6 gap between Red Bull and Toro Rosso at COTA...not that Honda is 0.6 faster than Renault! Still it is a big improvement for TR!!

No, just listen again. Webber specifically asked for it: "So Honda is .6 better than Renault?"
Then Horner (nodding): ".6 on average to us on what we had this weekend"

So Honda Spec 3 is .6 faster than Renault B Spec. Only remaining question is: race pace, or quali pace?

[AMG.Tzan]

I think Horner said that there was 0.6 gap between Red Bull and Toro Rosso at COTA...not that Honda is 0.6 faster than Renault! Still it is a big improvement for TR!!

No, just listen again. Webber specifically asked for it: "So Honda is .6 better than Renault?"
Then Horner (nodding): ".6 on average to us on what we had this weekend"

So Honda Spec 3 is .6 faster than Renault B Spec. Only remaining question is: race pace, or quali pace?

This looks great then...i really feel that RB will win more races with Honda...i even believe they can challenge for the championship in 2020 if not next year! 2019 is looking good...

[RonDennis]

I think Horner said that there was 0.6 gap between Red Bull and Toro Rosso at COTA...not that Honda is 0.6 faster than Renault! Still it is a big improvement for TR!!

No, just listen again. Webber specifically asked for it: "So Honda is .6 better than Renault?"
Then Horner (nodding): ".6 on average to us on what we had this weekend"

So Honda Spec 3 is .6 faster than Renault B Spec. Only remaining question is: race pace, or quali pace?

Looking at the race, it's only quali pace.

[gruntguru]

Mahle openly talked about using an adapted version of TJI for F1 regulations back in 2016. Mark Hughes wrote a piece about how they got around the single injector rule...

Within the F1 regulations, only a single injector is permitted and the key to applying the principle within that limitation was shrouding only the spark plug to form the mini-chamber above the main combustion chamber and not – as in the drawing – the injector and spark plug together.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ine-update

"How they got around the single injector role" Yes you are correct. that was after his attention was drawn to the rule stipulating "direct injection" must be used, and in turn the Mahle TJI pre-combustion system came about a week after pushing out the use of HCCI combustion system. all this happened something like 2 years ago.

You will find that the "Single Injector" rule is the thing that stopped them putting the injector in the pre-chamber, not the "Direct Injection" rule. In Diesel engines, the term "direct injection" is used to differentiate from "pre-chamber" injection. This is not the intent of the F1 rule which is seeks only to differentiate between "direct injection" and "port injection".

[gruntguru]

"How they got around the single injector role" Yes you are correct. that was after his attention was drawn to the rule stipulating "direct injection" must be used, and in turn the Mahle TJI pre-combustion system came about a week after pushing out the use of HCCI combustion system. all this happened something like 2 years ago.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here but if you know Mahle said they are using an adapted form of TJI 2 years ago already then why do you doubt the use of pre-chambers in F1?

Because i have my own reasons/believes (technical) like you might have.

So did you read the Honda release that Henry linked for you - the one that shows pictures of a pre-chamber?

[ispano6]

Indeed, looking good for 2019...

Verstappen started at the back of the grid along with the 2 Toro Rossos.
How on earth did he finish second on a power sensitive track ? Do you really think he would have made it if he had a lemon of a Honda in the back of his car ?

In all honestly, I try to keep it balanced, but some fans here have lost touch with reality.

REALITY: both Honda powered TR got lapped. Again. Not by Ferrari or Merc, but by RBR, powered by the turtle Renault engine.

I know, it’s the TR chassis you can still put the blame on. Luckily next year you will play the blame game with RBR.

Patience, earthling. Reality is that results are what you make of it. Gasly's first lap was not at all clean. Heck he cut the chicane in the esses to avoid Alonso and took a curb quite harshly. I think he went airborne in fact. I don't think he took debris and he probably had to avoid some but going over the curb might have done it.

Pierre:
"It was a long and difficult Sunday. Starting from P19 we knew it would be a difficult race. We took some debris after the chaotic first lap and that damaged the floor a bit, after that I was just trying to do everything I could from inside the car, but there was a massive loss of grip for the rest of the race. We decided for a two stop strategy but there wasn’t much we could do today. The pace over one lap in Qualifying was really good so there’s positives to take away from the weekend. It’s just a shame we couldn’t fight properly this time, but I’m really hoping we can carry the pace into Mexico and have a clean Qualifying there to get a good result for the team."

[McMika98]

Verstappen started at the back of the grid along with the 2 Toro Rossos.
How on earth did he finish second on a power sensitive track ?

Since when did Austin become a power sensitive track there are two straights and more than 10 chicanes all medium speed. So Vettel and Bottas were also driving with a turd if an engine?
Mcclowns started above both TR and could not even finish on points.

[gandharva]

I think Horner said that there was 0.6 gap between Red Bull and Toro Rosso at COTA...not that Honda is 0.6 faster than Renault! Still it is a big improvement for TR!!

No, just listen again. Webber specifically asked for it: "So Honda is .6 better than Renault?"
Then Horner (nodding): ".6 on average to us on what we had this weekend"

So Honda Spec 3 is .6 faster than Renault B Spec. Only remaining question is: race pace, or quali pace?

Looking at the race, it's only quali pace.

I also think it's quali pace Horner was referring to, but I think the race pace of the Honda engine is not that rubbish. Both TR drivers started at the back of the grid and Hartley, the usually much slower driver, managed to get into the points. Gaslys race was compromised because of floor damage he picked up in lap one. And let's be honest, the TR chassis has fallen back massively during the season because of lack of working updates. I think only Williams and McLaren have a worse chassis at this point of the season.

[saviour stivala]

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here but if you know Mahle said they are using an adapted form of TJI 2 years ago already then why do you doubt the use of pre-chambers in F1?

Because i have my own reasons/believes (technical) like you might have.

So did you read the Honda release that Henry linked for you - the one that shows pictures of a pre-chamber?

Yours is certianly one step better "link: the one that shows pictures of a pre-chamber". Are you by any chance trying to say that pre-chamber in that picture is what Honda are using on their F1 engine?.
As to what Henry refared me to, yes i have answerd him but unfortunatly it looks like only moderator have read it.