2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[GrandAxe]

pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/rg8go
https://streamable.com/rg8go


vettel p2 lap
https://streamable.com/brkxt
https://streamable.com/brkxt

Ferrari had practicaly no meaningful advantage on the straights in Q3. This points to the obvious, mercedes runs much more detuned in FP3, making ferrari look good. This happened a quite a few times now.
Ferrari even got up to 339 kmh over the line in FP3, yet in Q3 only about 332 kmh..

I think in 2018 cars sometimes hit higher top speed in FP than in quali (not including quali in wet). It's just an impression of mine and I don't want to go through all the docs from FIA.com, but I think it did happen quite a lot of times.

And I remember from last year's Brazil onboard Massa hit over 340kph in FP and yet was nowhere near that figure in quali. They must have different ERS deployment during FP and quali. So overal I think it's not that surprising to see Ferrari(or any other car) had higher top speed in FP.

Differences in FP and Q3 top speeds could do with testing differing downforce setups or racing line strategies.

[GrandAxe]

As for weighing: the FIA can mandate scales in every garage, so cars get automatically weighed (at continuous tiny intervals) each time they are stationery with mechanics working. That way, the FIA can simply take the last weight of the car before it leaves the garage - when fans, tyre blankets etc have been taken off.

[BazingaF1]

Thanks Juzh as always for the footage.

From the attached telemetry (HAM pole lap vs VET best lap in Q3)

1. cars are pretty much identical and it is really down to the driver difference
2. slightly higher cornering speed for MERC in a couple of turns, see annotations 1 and 2 in the figure
3. slightly better / different deployment for FER on the last straight, see annotation 3 (second acceleration phase)

pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/rg8go
https://streamable.com/rg8go


vettel p2 lap
https://streamable.com/brkxt
https://streamable.com/brkxt

Ferrari had practicaly no meaningful advantage on the straights in Q3. This points to the obvious, mercedes runs much more detuned in FP3, making ferrari look good. This happened a quite a few times now.
Ferrari even got up to 339 kmh over the line in FP3, yet in Q3 only about 332 kmh..

[Juzh]

pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/rg8go
https://streamable.com/rg8go


vettel p2 lap
https://streamable.com/brkxt
https://streamable.com/brkxt

Ferrari had practicaly no meaningful advantage on the straights in Q3. This points to the obvious, mercedes runs much more detuned in FP3, making ferrari look good. This happened a quite a few times now.
Ferrari even got up to 339 kmh over the line in FP3, yet in Q3 only about 332 kmh..

I think in 2018 cars sometimes hit higher top speed in FP than in quali (not including quali in wet). It's just an impression of mine and I don't want to go through all the docs from FIA.com, but I think it did happen quite a lot of times.

And I remember from last year's Brazil onboard Massa hit over 340kph in FP and yet was nowhere near that figure in quali. They must have different ERS deployment during FP and quali. So overal I think it's not that surprising to see Ferrari(or any other car) had higher top speed in FP.

Yep, it happened quite a few times now. I honestly can't understand it.

[Juzh]

pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/rg8go
https://streamable.com/rg8go


vettel p2 lap
https://streamable.com/brkxt
https://streamable.com/brkxt

Ferrari had practicaly no meaningful advantage on the straights in Q3. This points to the obvious, mercedes runs much more detuned in FP3, making ferrari look good. This happened a quite a few times now.
Ferrari even got up to 339 kmh over the line in FP3, yet in Q3 only about 332 kmh..

I think in 2018 cars sometimes hit higher top speed in FP than in quali (not including quali in wet). It's just an impression of mine and I don't want to go through all the docs from FIA.com, but I think it did happen quite a lot of times.

And I remember from last year's Brazil onboard Massa hit over 340kph in FP and yet was nowhere near that figure in quali. They must have different ERS deployment during FP and quali. So overal I think it's not that surprising to see Ferrari(or any other car) had higher top speed in FP.

Differences in FP and Q3 top speeds could do with testing differing downforce setups or racing line strategies.

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

[aral]

Re the weighing fiasco, what is disconcerting is the fact that Bauer, who was present, released a hasty statement that was not in fact factual. Does not give you much faith in the FIA when such a booboo can occur

[jjn9128]

Re the weighing fiasco, what is disconcerting is the fact that Bauer, who was present, released a hasty statement that was not in fact factual. Does not give you much faith in the FIA when such a booboo can occur

I dunno - IMO what he said was accurate, especially after looking at that twitter video. Vettel wasn't fined because of breach of rules because he turned the engine off and followed the instructions. He was fined for breaking the equipment and potentially endangering the scrutineers. Even though he drove off the scales carefully and in full control they were shot backwards fairly rapidly.

[GrandAxe]

I think in 2018 cars sometimes hit higher top speed in FP than in quali (not including quali in wet). It's just an impression of mine and I don't want to go through all the docs from FIA.com, but I think it did happen quite a lot of times.

And I remember from last year's Brazil onboard Massa hit over 340kph in FP and yet was nowhere near that figure in quali. They must have different ERS deployment during FP and quali. So overal I think it's not that surprising to see Ferrari(or any other car) had higher top speed in FP.

Differences in FP and Q3 top speeds could do with testing differing downforce setups or racing line strategies.

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

Different corner entry and exit speeds (from testing differing racing lines strategies) should affect the maximum speed down a straight.

Another thing to consider outside testing downforce setups and varied race line strategies is testing different deployment strategies for MGU-K and MGU-H during FP.

[subcritical71]

I don't think we can blame the FIA here for doing the weighing procedure as they have done for years, but it has highlighted some places where they can improve the process in the future.

For example some better signage around the weigh station, a bit more urgency, and perhaps some staff/marshals on hand to push the cars on and off (where team members aren't present to do the job).

It would be interesting to see how long a ‘normal’ weighing took when the driver followed procedure vs how long this one seemed to take. As with all processes and procedures if you decide to do your part different than what is expecteand the others don’t know what your doing it normally goes pear shaped. If weighing was such a concern was it brought up in the recent GDPA meeting?

[Juzh]

Differences in FP and Q3 top speeds could do with testing differing downforce setups or racing line strategies.

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

Different corner entry and exit speeds (from testing differing racing lines strategies) should affect the maximum speed down a straight.

No, it definitely shouldn't. A bit better or worse exit makes zero difference to top speed, absolutely zero.

Another thing to consider outside testing downforce setups and varied race line strategies is testing different deployment strategies for MGU-K and MGU-H during FP.

Implying ferrari doesn't know which maps are the best for any particular circuit months in advance.

[henry]

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

Different corner entry and exit speeds (from testing differing racing lines strategies) should affect the maximum speed down a straight.

No, it definitely shouldn't. A bit better or worse exit makes zero difference to top speed, absolutely zero.

Another thing to consider outside testing downforce setups and varied race line strategies is testing different deployment strategies for MGU-K and MGU-H during FP.

Implying ferrari doesn't know which maps are the best for any particular circuit months in advance.

They don’t know quite a few things months in advance, particularly wind speed and direction. You could equally expect them to get suspension setup or aero balance weeks in advance.

[yelistener]

Differences in FP and Q3 top speeds could do with testing differing downforce setups or racing line strategies.

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

Different corner entry and exit speeds (from testing differing racing lines strategies) should affect the maximum speed down a straight.

Another thing to consider outside testing downforce setups and varied race line strategies is testing different deployment strategies for MGU-K and MGU-H during FP.

Cornering only has an effect when the straight isn't long. Usually if a straight is long enough to allow you to reach over 300kph, then the corner exit wouldn't have any visible effect on the top speed (unless of cause that exit was completed messed up).

[siskue2005]

pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/rg8go
https://streamable.com/rg8go


vettel p2 lap
https://streamable.com/brkxt
https://streamable.com/brkxt

Ferrari had practicaly no meaningful advantage on the straights in Q3. This points to the obvious, mercedes runs much more detuned in FP3, making ferrari look good. This happened a quite a few times now.
Ferrari even got up to 339 kmh over the line in FP3, yet in Q3 only about 332 kmh..

I think in 2018 cars sometimes hit higher top speed in FP than in quali (not including quali in wet). It's just an impression of mine and I don't want to go through all the docs from FIA.com, but I think it did happen quite a lot of times.

And I remember from last year's Brazil onboard Massa hit over 340kph in FP and yet was nowhere near that figure in quali. They must have different ERS deployment during FP and quali. So overal I think it's not that surprising to see Ferrari(or any other car) had higher top speed in FP.

Yep, it happened quite a few times now. I honestly can't understand it.

it is just the energy deployment.... some teams deploy it all in the straight and try it out deploying at various locations during the practice sessions and finally find an optimal places to deploy them in Q3.... so they maybe down on ultimate speed but have higher speed in some other places and earning them more laptime.....the difference in 2018 is that they have more drag than previous years (Halo), which is making this differences exaggerated

[Just_a_fan]

There were no visible changes to ferrari car from fp3 to q3. Why would racing line strategies be relevant here i don't know.

Trying different downforce and thus drag levels would give reasonable top speed variations. Try slightly less downforce and see if lap time benefits. Top speed would change accordingly.

Whilst the teams use simulation to get a set up ahead of the race, it doesn't hurt to try things on track "just in case".

[Just_a_fan]

Cornering only has an effect when the straight isn't long. Usually if a straight is long enough to allow you to reach over 300kph, then the corner exit wouldn't have any visible effect on the top speed (unless of cause that exit was completed messed up).

Corner exit will affect when the car gets to top speed, of course. It's one reason corner exit affects lap time.