Phil wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 14:03
Manoah2u wrote: ↑13 Nov 2018, 13:33
All that takes nothing away from the, once again, simple fact, that you DONT FIGHT the race leader.
Also, if Ocon is fighting Max, that does not mean Max is fighting Ocon.
Ok, I'll bite Manoah2u.
I'll ask you two questions, lets see if you can come up with a reasonable answer.
1.) If Max wasn't 'fighting' as you are suggesting, why did Max move to the inside before T1? Was this not a "defensive-move"?
First of all, i'm not saying Max wasn't neccesarily 'wrong' in taking/cutting that turn so short.
But was it fighting? I'd rather think max simply did not expect Ocon to be there. Whether that is his own stupidity (and yes, it is a tad stupid to simply think a driver disappears), or a form of arrogance 'who dares to do that', is another story but i personally think, Max never let it cross his mind that there would be car there.
Point about that is that i personally don't believe max was 'fighting'. Was it unwise? hell yes, but Max is also
particularly known for having unwise moves and added to that, most drivers know Max doesn't leave you space.
Let's call it a trademark. Perhaps and in this case stupid, but a trademark.
So no, i don't think he was actively fighting. I don't think it was a defensive move. I - personally - think it was more of a 'nobody's there or nobody can be there' move. Which intself is inviting for a collision, sure. no doubt that Max COULD have been wiser like Hamilton in leaving space so the unexpected would not have happened.
2.) Given Ocon is well within his rights to unlap himself, what should he have done with that very, very large speed advantage he was carrying down that long DRS straight + tow and after Max moved to the inside and he found himself ahead at the moment of turn-in into T1 (also considering T1 leads straight into T2 where the outside becomes the inside of the next corner)?
braking, that's why there are brakes. he is in a force india, which carries higher top speed anyway. wait for the next corner. he's the backmarker, he's not for position.
thing is, it was not neccesarily wrong to go into that corner, but he had plenty of time to see he was behind max already there: he was with his left front wheel right in front of max rear wheel, no matter that he cut him off so to speak. in other words, he could/should have bailed, even if Max cut him off.
i'll quote some other sources on the matter.
Jaques villeneuve
Ocon is an embarrassment. That was ridiculous. And the worst bit is everyone has seen what happened, and on the radio not even a ‘sorry guys, I was wrong.’ It’s good to accept you’re wrong.
“You can unlap yourself, but do it properly. You’re not allowed to put the leader at risk at all. You don’t do something that loses time for the other driver, and is taking a risk. Overtaking on the straight and you’re in front is fine. But that looked like it was a battle for the lead.
“But also it shows he has no racecraft, zero racecraft whatsoever. All the incidents in the last two years where maybe it’s his fault, maybe it’s not, you can kind of think that maybe he was in the wrong, because he hasn’t read the race properly. And he never learns, because it’s never his fault, ever.”
church.
article on wtf1
it’s easy to forget to root cause of the whole scenario. Ocon attempting to unlap himself was a legitimate move that went very badly wrong.
there’s a huge difference between successfully making a move on the slowest car on the grid and trying to lunge up the inside of the race leader.
He may well have been faster at that point in the race but there’s a difference between making a clean move to unlap yourself and taking the fight to a race leader.
Plenty of other racing drivers also felt that Ocon was in the wrong, feeling that a lapped car had no right to be so aggressive.
Charlie Whiting
it should be done cleanly and absolutely without fighting. He shouldn’t be fighting to get past.
“If he’s got the pace then normally one would expect Red Bull to say ‘Ocon’s got the pace, just let him through’, that sort of thing. But it seemed that he just went for it and it was a bit unfortunate that he decided to fight for it which was wholly unacceptable.”
some driver quotes
Mark Webber
✔
@AussieGrit
Mental that a back-marker(P16) nails the leader of the race...
At that level, total brain fade....
Casey Stoner
✔
@Official_CS27
What was @OconEsteban thinking?? That may the the most thoughtless move I have seen in racing. Doesn’t matter if he was unlapping himself, you don’t impede the race leader.
Ben Constanduros @BenConsty
· Nov 12, 2018
Wow @OconEsteban had some pace...Max knew he was there and defended - gives a very different impression than what we saw on the world Feed, TV has such important role in perception....
Antonio Felix da Costa
✔
@afelixdacosta
Thats not pace, thats DRS, i can see Esteban’s point of view, he has races Max in the past and wanted to prove a point.
On the other hand, that looks like a move for the race lead, way too far back, lunges around the outside, being a lap down. You cant race the leader like that