What changes should be made to the rules for lapped cars in F1?

[Andres125sx]

So what if a lead car has an issue or fuel savings are they just supposed to cue up behind until the lead car pits or retires

That situation can be easily solved with the lead car moving to a side and allowing the lapped car to un-lap himself, or even better, that decision should be made by Charlie, if a lapped car is obviously faster he gets permission to un-lap. Otherwise, banned.

So in a roundabout way you have made a situation take longer and slow both cars down than it does now after you realised a major flaw with your original idea great stuff. And if a lead car refuses are the FIA really going to punish them for not letting the backmarker past I doubt it the backlash the moment they do would be horrific

That´s far from a major flaw, a lapped car unlapping himself is not that usual, and it´s normal for the lead driver to get surprised if someone who´s not fighting for victory try to pass him, wich was the cause of the accident. I´d ban unlapping but the race director always have the power to make some exception if the lapped car is faster constantly, not for a brief tire advantage, like your hypotesis about a situation where the lead car is saving tires and fuel. Then the lead car will be aware.

A car unlapping is not that common, a car unlapping because of that reason will be so rare it can be handled different for that particular situation. Meanwhile, unlapping banned generally speaking

[Fulcrum]

This was not a blue flag issue

Agreed, it wasn't. But people are voting for blue flags to be removed or the rules changes etc. Always useful to remember where we came from just in case we end up back there again.

But we wouldn't be back there again. There was no DRS 20 years ago, tyre differentials were different, they had refueling, circumstances were less safe altogether, field spread tended to be wider, etc... Pick a variable, things have changed.

Revoking Blue Flag rules does not send us back in time.

In today's field, Blue flags practically only apply to 6 cars anyway, and I highly doubt any of them would find themselves unable to pass the other 14 cars. One only needs to look at how Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull progress from poor grid slots to work this out - the exception being track specific circumstances (Monaco in particular). The principle difference being, they'd actually have to do a bit of work getting past instead of being waved through.

The strategic element of racing would be made more complex (better IMO). Leading drivers wouldn't get free passes, they'd actually have to learn (and practice) how to pass. It would induce bunching amongst leaders, leading to more opportunities for them to overtake one another. Likewise, slower drivers would quickly have to learn how to engage defensively without looking stupid. The degree of legitimate action on track would probably double in volume.

Sounds terrible. Let's not do that.

[Wynters]

Max lined up to the inside because he knows that's is where the grip in turn 1 lies, on the inside of the corner.

The only lap that Max took that line (other than when overtaking or defending) was when Ocon was about to over take him. Why didn't he take this superior line earlier? Or later? Why didn't other drivers make use of this 'grippier' line to carry more speed through the corner throughout the race?

It surprises me that people can't seem to look at the incident apart from the emotional side or could have, would have, should have mentality like the stewards did.

On one side, there are people such as yourself who believe that it should be impossible for cars to unlap themselves and that any attempt to do so should be severely punished. On the other side, there are people (such as myself) who see cars do it regularly and the leader neither wastes time battling them, nor collides with them.

As the sporting regulations allow cars to unlap themselves, it's possible that the latter set of people may have a point. If only there was an example where a car was lapped, unlapped itself and went on to score points. Perhaps Singapore 2015?

[Wynters]

Pretty sure there are plenty of examples of people coming back from P16 or lower to score points and/or win the race.

not being 1 lap down

Singapore 2015. Max Verstappen. Last (and a lap down) to 8th. It was a season highlight for me.

Can I assume that, if I was to go back to the relevant race thread, the same people castigating the very idea of lapped cars unlapping themselves would have made their feelings plain then as well?

[Wynters]

Sounds terrible. Let's not do that.

I think there's a lot of positives in your post but, sadly, Monaco.

I can barely face watching Monaco at the moment, can you imagine watching Monaco where the lead cars are all nose-to-tail behind a Williams, coughing around with an engine problem? The upside is, eventually that Williams would pit!

And then they would get stuck behind the other one.

For the whole race.

[Big Tea]

Pretty sure there are plenty of examples of people coming back from P16 or lower to score points and/or win the race.

not being 1 lap down

Singapore 2015. Max Verstappen. Last (and a lap down) to 8th. It was a season highlight for me.

Can I assume that, if I was to go back to the relevant race thread, the same people castigating the very idea of lapped cars unlapping themselves would have made their feelings plain then as well?

In this case, Max would not have had the advantage of cars in front being flagged aside as he was not lapping them.
This above all demonstrates to me that the 3 flags and penalty rule is needless and spoiling the racing.

[Fulcrum]

Sounds terrible. Let's not do that.

I think there's a lot of positives in your post but, sadly, Monaco.

I can barely face watching Monaco at the moment, can you imagine watching Monaco where the lead cars are all nose-to-tail behind a Williams, coughing around with an engine problem? The upside is, eventually that Williams would pit!

And then they would get stuck behind the other one.

For the whole race.

We've had nose-to-tail scenarios several times in the last few years, no backmarkers required. Ricciardo won this year with a damaged engine.

Monaco is an exception, and I'm happy to treat it as such.

[Just_a_fan]

The strategic element of racing would be made more complex (better IMO).

I agree that this would be the case. The strategy would be senior teams using junior teams to block opponents. Imagine TorroRosso blocking Ferrari so that RedBull can get away in front. Or Mercedes asking Williams to block a RedBull, Ferrari asking Haas to block, etc. This wouldn't be better racing but it would definitely be more strategic.

[Unf]

No more lapped drivers - as soon as a car is lapped the race is over for them, return to the pits.

This. At the beginning will be creepy, but this situation will let FIA to do HUGE things for rescue F1. With no changes we are going to have the same Formula 1 made by 3 teams and "the rest" which beahve only as bollards...

[Wynters]

We've had nose-to-tail scenarios several times in the last few years, no backmarkers required. Ricciardo won this year with a damaged engine.

Monaco is an exception, and I'm happy to treat it as such.

There are a couple of other tracks where it is extremely difficult to pass (Singapore e.g. Bottas/Hulk springs to mind) as does Australia in general but, to be honest, if losing those tracks was necessary as part of a solution...I'd be ok with that

[Big Tea]

No more lapped drivers - as soon as a car is lapped the race is over for them, return to the pits.

This. At the beginning will be creepy, but this situation will let FIA to do HUGE things for rescue F1. With no changes we are going to have the same Formula 1 made by 3 teams and "the rest" which beahve only as bollards...

Why not the other way around? when the leader catches up, he drops out having won.
Race then restarts without either of the two cars involve as they are now first and last.

[zac510]

No more lapped drivers - as soon as a car is lapped the race is over for them, return to the pits.

This. At the beginning will be creepy, but this situation will let FIA to do HUGE things for rescue F1. With no changes we are going to have the same Formula 1 made by 3 teams and "the rest" which beahve only as bollards...

Don't panic. F1 always runs in cycles, there'll be 2 or 3 dominant teams for a few years, then the slower teams will catch up for a few years and we'll have some close championships, then we'll get different dominant teams again for a couple of years.
Kneejerk reactionary rule changes like this were a staple of the 90s and 00s when Bernie and Max ran it, but Liberty and Brawn seem to be a bit more realistic about making considered and calculated rule changes, so let's just let them do it.

[Just_a_fan]

The reality is that unlapping drivers etc. has not been much of a problem for F1. One race, one particular driver makes it an issue and suddenly people, seemingly fans of said driver, want wholesale changes, not only to blue flags but to the entire structure of a race.

Totally ridiculous.

[TAG]

Poor Max, lost when he pushed Ocon on track and lost when he pushed Ocon off track.

[Big Tea]

I read someplace before a suggestion that a paint line, like a bus lane be included at corners and if there are waved blue flags the lapped cars must stay in this lane.

While I am not in favour of it, it does have some advantages. The lapped cars know where to go, and the lapping drivers know where they are heading, also it keeps the fighting lower cars in the same order they were and not cost one a place.

However, in this case, which car would have gone to the lane?