What changes should be made to the rules for lapped cars in F1?

[DiogoBrand]

Then vote and leave, no need to insult people. The quality of users on this forum has taken a massive hit in the last few years

I don't recall insulting anyone.
I also didn't know I was only allowed to comment if I agreed with you.

I consider being called "stupid" an insult. I'm more than happy to debate, and if you have an alternative you prefer to the ones provided please do share. Simply coming along saying "this is a stupid poll" isn't very constructive or civil.

There's a difference between a stupid idea and a stupid person, I hoped by now you would've realized that.

[strad]

[quote=DiogoBrand
It will always be a fight if the car ahead doesn't want the car behind to pass, if a fight took place it was because Verstappen wanted it to take place.
[/quote]

Give it up...

[DiogoBrand]

Wow that's a great argument!

[strad]

Done arguing..Pretty clear that I think you should quit beating a dead horse.
The FIA and a dozen ex drivers say you're wrong but you can believe whatever you like.

[NathanOlder]

He has a right to unlap himself when he can do so cleanly. He does not have the right to FIGHT with the leader..

It would have been clean if Max hadn't drove straight in to him.
Its like if they were side by side on a straight and Max veered across in to Ocon, you are saying its still Ocon's fault.

You say about pundits and ex drivers blaming Ocon. Lewis said he should always leave room. None of the pundits or ex drivers are as successful as Lewis, thats a 100% fact.

[strad]

Ocon. Lewis said he should always leave room

You Know...Like Lewis has always done.

[DiogoBrand]

I don't remember Lewis running into someone when overtaking or defending from an overtake. There was the incident with Vettel at Monza but that was more Seb's falt than Lewis'. And even if he did so, it's not at all usual.
Max, on the other hand...

[NathanOlder]

Ocon. Lewis said he should always leave room

You Know...Like Lewis has always done.

Strad, give me some examples if Lewis driving in to someone or Lewis running someone off the track. Note that I'm saying running someone off the track and not him being run off the track.

Off the top of my head, Texas in the wet comes to mind. But thats years ago now.

The way you mentioned it , it must have happened a lot. Or was it just a desperate answer after realising its not quite how you see it.

I'd also like to add , I bet a lot of these ex drivers and pundits made their comments right after the race rather than seeing it unfold for a few laps and seeing what really happened

[henry]

I don’t really care about this one way or another but here’s an almost identical situation.

https://youtu.be/LJe7GI9C7vU

The driver in the silver car took some time to learn that you win nothing in the crash barriers. But he has.

[marmer]

I don’t really care about this one way or another but here’s an almost identical situation.

https://youtu.be/LJe7GI9C7vU

The driver in the silver car took some time to learn that you win nothing in the crash barriers. But he has.

Almost nothing about this move is identical
Pastor was not a lap down for a start it was directly for position.
Pastor also had gone off track before rejoining to hit Hamilton he could have backed off but pastor is not the type he was right to try and out brake ham but once the move didn't happen that door was always going to close.

[Sieper]

I don't think I have ever seen a lapped car chasing down a lead car and then trying to make an overtake and take him out. It is quite a unique scenario.

F.e. some people were calling it karma as Max' father once took out the race lead (JP Montoya) but that was not the same, here Jos got overtaken and then wanted to try and stay in the slipstream for a bit and profit of the pace of the race lead (and missed his braking point because of lower downforce level you have once in the slipstream).

In any case, I read somewhere the following idea, maybe lapped cars should not get DRS on cars that have lapped them. If they are faster, fine, but then no DRS, you did not really earn it as you are not just behind, you are actually more then a lap behind. It is something that could be considered. It does make unlapping much tougher and perhaps will help drivers in their consideration if it is worth to challenge the race leads fro a few tenths of pace over a few laps or not.

Even if f.e Ocon would have unlapped himself succesfully (which woudl have required Verstappen to move out of the way, of the racing line and lose time whilst doing so) he would have seen his SS degrade over the next two (maybe three) laps to such a state that the race leads would have had to overtake him once again (the Force India was lapping on average 1,2 second of the pace as per the McLaren race statitistics) so he would not have been able to keep that pace (plus 1.5 seconds faster as before) up for long.

To me it would be good if a change like described above would be implemented, lapped cars do not benefit much from overtaking (unless they have a valid pace difference) and then it is just bad luck you got into the scenario that you are a lap behind (but granted, then the proposed change would be detrimental).

[henry]

I don’t really care about this one way or another but here’s an almost identical situation.

https://youtu.be/LJe7GI9C7vU

The driver in the silver car took some time to learn that you win nothing in the crash barriers. But he has.

Almost nothing about this move is identical
Pastor was not a lap down for a start it was directly for position.
Pastor also had gone off track before rejoining to hit Hamilton he could have backed off but pastor is not the type he was right to try and out brake ham but once the move didn't happen that door was always going to close.

The similarity is in manoeuvre itself and the risk that Hamilton took. His reward was a DNF.

[zac510]

I'd forgotten about that move. Just searched and Maldonado got a 20second race time penalty for not rejoining the track safely, which seems fair, regardless of judgement of Hamilton's line.

[NathanOlder]

True but wasn't it a battle over something like 4th and 5th place , and Hamilton was hanging on with older tyres (something like that) Lewis' reward would have been holding on to position and scoring more points. If Max let Ocon pass him, Max would have lost no points. The risk reward situation for Max makes him look very foolish.

[KeiKo403]

I voted for no change. Who remembers Silverstone 2008? A very wet GP...Anyone who says lapped cars should drive into the pits and retire should think of this example. I'm pretty sure at 1 point in this race Barrichello was a lap down too (can't be sure though).

from BBC website
Results from the British Grand Prix, Silverstone

1. Lewis Hamilton (GB) McLaren-Mercedes one hour 39 minutes 09.440 seconds
2. Nick Heidfeld (Ger) BMW Sauber +01:08.577
3. Rubens Barrichello (Brz) Honda 01:22.273
4. Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) Ferrari 1 lap
5. Heikki Kovalainen (Fin) McLaren-Mercedes 1 lap
6. Fernando Alonso (Spa) Renault 1 lap
7. Jarno Trulli (Ita) Toyota 1 lap
8. Kazuki Nakajima (Jpn) Williams-Toyota 1 lap
9. Nico Rosberg (Ger) Williams-Toyota 1 lap
10. Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault 1 lap
11. Sebastien Bourdais (Fra) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1 lap
12. Timo Glock (Ger) Toyota 1 lap
13. Felipe Massa (Brz) Ferrari 2 laps

R Robert Kubica (Pol) BMW Sauber 21 laps
R Jenson Button (GB) Honda 21 laps
R Nelson Piquet (Brz) Renault 24 laps
R Giancarlo Fisichella (Ita) Force India-Ferrari 33 laps
R Adrian Sutil (Ger) Force India-Ferrari 50 laps
R Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Toro Rosso-Ferrari Spin
R David Coulthard (GB) Red Bull-Renault Spin

Fastest Lap: Kimi Raikkonen, 1:32.150, lap 18.

Key: R = retire

By some views Massa should've retired twice

------------------------------------------------------------
Also Button in Canada 2011, although not a lap down he was last, race drivers should never stop racing in a race.

Just on the topic of Max vs Ocon, lets say that Max kept defending Ocon for a few laps, all of that wheel to wheel racing and defending, surely there should be a risk that Hamilton would be right behind Max by then and Ocon lets him through? Anyone considered this? Max' only real option should've been to let Ocon get on with his own race. I know I just said I want to see racers race etc but that little tussle into T1/T2 was great and it's just a shame that it ended in contact.