The trouble is. Mercedes and Ferrari have had 6 cars all year gathering data, to Honda's 2. I know Honda could try new parts each race, but If they had a 'Monster' as you put it, surely it makes sense to try it asap, like in the last race of the year!hudnut wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 12:52I don't think we have any idea what Honda will have next season.
They've basically been able to use TR as a test bed in GP conditions for most of the season.
They could have been trying all sorts of ideas at various times, and designed an absolute monster with the data they've gathered.
I think the first point needs to be considered with the last point. RedBull, under Newey, tend to run tight bodywork which I'm sure doesn't help reliability.
Did you pay attention to the fact that, the excellent tire life was more unidirectional on one single compound in every race? They change the tire in the race and the pace suddenly disappears. Also, they gave up fighting for qualifying positions as they knew, even if they fight with all their might, the best that they could muster was a 3rd row start. With the mid-field being quite far behind, they could easily focus on a race biased setup, specifically targeting a compound.Phil wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 13:02If the talk by Helmut is anything to go by, as a competitor of RB, i’d be frightened. Even with the lacking Renault engine (although RB have been using fresher engines vs Mercedes/Ferrari), their general and tire performance in races has been extremely impressive. Assuming the Honda is at the very least slightly better would already bring them quite a bit closer.
Diesel wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 13:21McLaren said similar things about Honda at the start, I'm not convinced, it didn't look great in the Torro Rosso this year. Let's not forget, Renault isn't standing still, the Spec C engine is a significant upgrade in power, they just need to sort the delivery issues, and they may even turn up next year with a Spec D/E with even more improvements.
Very true. Although I think it's been said that the Honda engine is more compact (even this year in the Torro-Rosso), so for the first time in many many many years, RedBull actually have an engine that is catered specifically to them and not to multiple customers.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 15:27I think the first point needs to be considered with the last point. RedBull, under Newey, tend to run tight bodywork which I'm sure doesn't help reliability.
I would like something similar to 2010. A 5-way battle for the Championship at some point during the Championship and a Finale where 4 of them still had a chance. That was some season!GPR -A wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 15:29Did you pay attention to the fact that, the excellent tire life was more unidirectional on one single compound in every race? They change the tire in the race and the pace suddenly disappears. Also, they gave up fighting for qualifying positions as they knew, even if they fight with all their might, the best that they could muster was a 3rd row start. With the mid-field being quite far behind, they could easily focus on a race biased setup, specifically targeting a compound.Phil wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 13:02If the talk by Helmut is anything to go by, as a competitor of RB, i’d be frightened. Even with the lacking Renault engine (although RB have been using fresher engines vs Mercedes/Ferrari), their general and tire performance in races has been extremely impressive. Assuming the Honda is at the very least slightly better would already bring them quite a bit closer.
With Pirelli changing compounds every year like underwear, teams have to be prepared for itching in unexpected parts for next year and give away the mastery they gained over scratching the current itch. It's going to be a reset on tires again and it's going to be learning all over again. A few more millions down the drain for each team, trying to learn the new round black sh** .
If Honda doesn't solve their reliability woes, RB might be compromised to run the PU in a conservative mode, akin to what they were doing with Renault. Merc and Ferrari have proven reliability and they add more power on top of what they have. The last time these guys introduced a newer spec PU was 3 months back in Spa and add another couple of months before the next spec goes to production and they have got 5 months to bring some more performance. It's difficult to imagine Honda being anywhere closer to either Merc or Ferrari PU in 2019 and even if just one PU blows up for each of the RB driver (a very conservative ask, looking at their current state), it's almost championship over.
I would be happy to be surprised and see a three way fight. 2012 seems like eternity when we had more than 2 teams fighting for championship.
You got to admit though, if RedBull hadnt been handicapped by a subpar engine over these last few years, they’d have probably been WDC contenders. Hard not to be impressed of the cars they’ve developed even over these last few years (exception being perhaps start of 2017 where their car just didnt work).Just_a_fan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:31I think a lot will come down to who is able seal the floor best without the benefit of outwash. The high rake philosophy must benefit most from floor sealing. Maybe there will be rake reduction - at least to start with.
Indeed so. I doubt anyone seriously thinks the RedBull chassis / aero is anything other than very much top drawer and that with a better PU they'd have been in the mix for titles. It would have been interesting to see the intra-team dynamic had that been the case. I think their internal fights would have been just as costly as their PU issues. Max and Dan would have been taking points off each other and probably would have allowed Vettel or Hamilton in by way of being individually more consistent. You wouldn't need many Baku style incidents to mess the team's chances.Phil wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 18:36You got to admit though, if RedBull hadnt been handicapped by a subpar engine over these last few years, they’d have probably been WDC contenders. Hard not to be impressed of the cars they’ve developed even over these last few years (exception being perhaps start of 2017 where their car just didnt work).
