Getting rid of refuelling?

[WhiteBlue]

would make a lot of sense in my view. Teams would have to rely on their drivers to overtake instead of pit stop strategies. Driving cars with vastly different weight and tyre conditions would make it more of a driver championship which is what we want, don't we?

And when we are at it let's get rid of the bloody race fuel in Q3!!!

[Chaparral]

Id say asking a question like that on a forum like this would bring a mixture of answers given some here will be quite new to the sport and 'pit stops' are a natural part of the racing picture - then there will be some who (like me) have never seen the need for pit stops as it is seen as creating a circumstance to 'spice up' not enhance the racing - the same for tyres Id prefer 2 manufacturers - let them have their tyre war. And heres an 'out there' idea to throw in the mix - currently GP's run 2 hours and approx 300 kms in length. Why not take a leaf out of the very early GP's and through the season have say 3-4 long distance GP's where the distance is doubled to say 600 kms and say 4 hours in duration - then pit stops obviously make sense. Potential tracks for the long distance races - Monza - Spa - Indianapolis - Silverestone. Just some wild thoughts from a wild colonial boy

[modbaraban]

Nice idea there about the longer GPs, Chaparral. That could bring some endurance aspect into the equasion.

Recently the cars have become so much more reliable than just six years ago when I started following F1 closely. Cars that were losing as much as several seconds per lap on any track could still hope for points finish in any race because the retirements were quite normal even for the leaders. Even when there were only top 6 cars in points, still teams like Jaguar or even Arrows could collect some points.

Nowdays, even though the cars are much closer in terms of laptimes, there isn't much ofd a chance for teams like Force India to finish in top 8. A couple of long races would definitely bring more pressure on cars. Especially when other races remain as 'short' as they are now.

As for refuelling, I think the biggest problem with the pitstops is the great similarity in race strategies caused by race fuel load in Q3. That's the first thing to change, IMO.

[andartop]

maybe it's because it 's too early in the morning and i m still on safe mode, but i can't see how getting rid of refuelling would lead to having cars with vastly different weights on the track, since they would all be carrying pretty much the same amount of fuel at any given moment in the race? (unless if you mean vastly different near the finish as compared to how they start...doh!)

as far as the "endurance" races are concerned, i d certainly love to watch a 4h, or even a 6h (!!!) race (Le Mans please please please!!!), and i bet so would you and the other guys here, but don't forget what GOD would think about that. that is TV. that is MONEY. no way they would do something like that. maybe they introduced refuelling for TV in the first place, so they could throw in commercials after all the cars in the front have completed their pit stops (so it could be considered that nothing too exciting is about to happen in the next 5 minutes, go on mate, grab another beer while we please our sponsors!!!)

on the other hand, with so many races over the last years turning out to be even more boring than waiting for the washing machine to finish, could you even imagine what might happen if we had a 4h race like that??? with reliability better than ever before, and quite a few drivers appearing to have lost their balls, one single race like that might even kill F1 for good!!! (not for you and me of course, but definitely for the others...)

[nae]

hmm spend a day getting the fastest guy at the front (qualy)
then let them race without a need to stop

I cant see how that is going to 'spice up' the racing

pit stops introduce a chance for error, pit fires , dodgy wheel changes etc

they also allow those outside the top 10 to save 20-30 secs buy going
for a stop less and thus get them into the mix

as for endurance F1, it will never fly viewers would turn off in droves
F1 is dull enough of the 2 hrs for the majority as it is

maybe 2 x 1 hr 150 km races with no refuelling might work
with the 2nd race grid reversed

[zac510]

Driving cars with vastly different weight and tyre conditions would make it more of a driver championship which is what we want, don't we?

Why would they have different weight? They'd all have the same weight, in fuel to get to the finish.

[Chaparral]

Modbaraban - Nice idea there about the longer GPs, Chaparral. That could bring some endurance aspect into the equasion.

Yes I thought just an element that’s different but obviously not endurance racing just an element of – maybe no re-fuel for the normal 300 km 2 hour races and re-fueling only allowed in the 3-4 longer distance races – the series does need something different to whats been normal for a couple of decades and that sort of works for me. Of course even better would be an addition of open configurations for engines (V8, V12, V10, Flat 12, H16, Rotary to a certain parity capacity formula and KERS as a bonus) – and its fuel restricted of course. I’d prefer to see 2 tyre manufacturers but OK if its only one then have them manufacture 2 sets of compounds that will last half a certain period depending on the way a driver conserves or wears his tyres be it the shorter no re-fuel GPs or the longer races with refueling – I think that would throw up some very different scenarios with some of the teams (maybe those down the bottom of the grid) building long distance ‘specials’ with the chance of upsetting some of the teams at the pointy end in the longer races. At present as someone said the teams down the bottom of the tree have no real chance unless there’s a screw up in the pit stops with the major teams or an accident or rain and that doesn’t happen often – this way it might. To be honest its really a dream but to be honest the current teams don’t appear to be looking outside the square when it comes to what they call ‘the show’. Also with the different engine configurations it allows more of an alliance to what the manufacturers are out there doing with their road car markets – currently it’s a spec engine V8 formula – and spec formula’s only have a certain life span and really are boring (well most).

Andartop - maybe they introduced refuelling for TV in the first place

They did indeed do it for that reason Andartop – its all about the TV audience and the fees involved

Nae - hmm spend a day getting the fastest guy at the front (qualy)
then let them race without a need to stop

I cant see how that is going to 'spice up' the racing

as for endurance F1, it will never fly viewers would turn off in droves
F1 is dull enough of the 2 hrs for the majority as it is

Yes it is dull Nae – I generally last about 20 laps and Im off to bed – mind you it’s the middle of the night when we get the ‘live delayed by 1.5 hour telecast’ so it doesn’t hold my interest – MotoGP now that’s different holds my attention right through the race even though its aired at a similar time.

[Steven]

Andartop - maybe they introduced refuelling for TV in the first place

They did indeed do it for that reason Andartop – its all about the TV audience and the fees involved

Actually there is another reason: safety. Back in the days when refuelling was not allowed, the cars were filled up at the beginning of the race, and often that is the most dangerous moment in the race.
At the same time, the FIA have set in the regulations a maximum amount of energy that a car may carry at any time, hence also limiting the fuel capacity of the car.

[Chaparral]

Yes that is true Tomba with the fuel cells and carrying capacity - and the underlying thing was that it made for a better TV viewing audience (via the 'potential drama') which BCE just loves obviously

[zac510]

Fuel cells are far safer these days too.

For those guys that want to see endurance races - well there's one at Nurburgring this weekend! 1000km! Then a few weeks later there's one at Silverstone, too. Amazing!

[woohoo]

Well, I wouldn't mind having pitstops banned completely.

The strategy aspect has gone too far IHMO.
Drivers dont race, becuse they know they will pit in 2 laps, so there is no need to risk and overtake the guy infront, as HE is on a different strategy, so when he pits... yadda yadda yadda...

Also, it will eliminate the stupid qualifying method we have today, "ahh he is on pole, but how much fuel does he have.."
If he is on pole, that means he is on pole, good job, no questions asked.

We might see some boring races in the beginning, but that will probably change as drivers and teams realize that status quo wont give them anything. They will have to fight, ie RACE!!

[WhiteBlue]

obviously the changing weight refers to the different stages of the race. This means that setup would be forced to be much more general and drivers would have to adapt to changing conditions which is a nice challenge. Also those who are good at conserving tyres would need fewer pit stops. This would showcase more driving styles and driving skills. That is why pit stops should still be allowed. and I agree that it would force more passing on track. fuel cells are so much safer now that an increase in fuel on board would still be much safer than the refuelling risk of fire. botched pit stops could still happen as wheel changes would continue. I see a lot more positive than negative.

[Ciro Pabón]

Tyres don't last a whole race, so anyway pitstops will continue. All you can get is a 4 or 5 seconds shorter stop. The race would be less exciting for the first laps, I think, because the cars would be as loaded as a truck. Frankly, I don't see a huge change, certainly racing doesn't depend on that.

You could follow NASCAR for a while (if you don't already) to notice that a series with more overtakings and cars more "equalized" is also boring, if you wish to see it that way: the whole race people is saving tyres for the last 10 laps. Racing is like love: the passion you have for it doesn't depend on one thing, it's the combination of many things what can make you feel more or less interested.

[nae]

wishing F1 was another series isnt going to fix F1 in anyway

there are many different series that have , endurance, sprint,
refuelling, 2 tyre, 4 tyre changes etc if thats what you want
to see pay the right tv company and watch them

[GTO]

If you want to remove refueling, you have to allow teams choice of different engine capacities and powerplants (V8, V10, V12 and diesel, turbo etc,) & re-introduce engine development through the race season. Maybe you would also re-introduce different tire mfg. also for added car perfomance variability. That way, their varying fuel consumption, power output, perfomance & reliability capabilities will provide the mix through the grid for interesting racing & overtaking posibilities.

Otherwise to have 20 virtually identical V8 cars with engine development freeze, single tire mfg. & same fuel load to last to the end of the race (plus/minus a few liters depending on engine mfg) will be as boring as watching paint dry. There would be certainly no overtaking besides passing backmarkers.