Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[mzso]

slightly offtopic, but interesting story how Honda engine was not competitive enough in Indicar, and needed 6 years to turn the tide
https://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/227/l ... car-title/

It seems mostly off-topic, since they struggled mostly because of "Manufacturer Aerokits", whatever that was.

[godlameroso]

Not good with just over a month before testing begins.

[dren]

slightly offtopic, but interesting story how Honda engine was not competitive enough in Indicar, and needed 6 years to turn the tide
https://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/227/l ... car-title/

It seems mostly off-topic, since they struggled mostly because of "Manufacturer Aerokits", whatever that was.

Each engine maker had an aero kit specific to the make: Honda had a kit developed by Wirth and Chevy had their kit (don't remember who developed it). The Chevy kit was arguably the better of the two. IndyCar then reverted back to a standard kit for all teams.

[dren]

Some say there are problems on the dyno...

Sounds like the same story every year. Anything specific to note?

[Wouter]

Some say there are problems on the dyno...

Who are "some"?
Do you have a source?

[RonDennis]

Didnt see any follow up after those fishy articles about current issues with oscillations, so its safe to assume it was about what happened between russian and japanese gp right?

Not according to the article. The article states that Honda NOW wants to fix these problems themselves, which suggest that they haven't been fixed. I suspect that someone within AVL leaked the information to Bild, which would also explain why other outlets haven't been reporting about the situation.

[PlatinumZealot]

Check the graph (the Nox one at lambda =1) and see the inconsistency with the title of it.
The TJI DOES NOT have a 99% reduction in NOx vesrsus normal spark ignition at lamda =1 as the title of the graph suggests. If we cross check it with the second graph we see that this actually "percentage of."
Even at other similar lamda the ex-engine TJI NOx can be considered simlar to normal spark based on other papers too.

The "Lambda = 1" is in brackets immediately after the words "Baseline SI".
The caption below says ". . . engine out NOx emission comparisons of jet ignition and stoichiometric spark ignition combustion"

I was talking about the title not the caption.

I give up so I will move on...

[tcooper27]

Didnt see any follow up after those fishy articles about current issues with oscillations, so its safe to assume it was about what happened between russian and japanese gp right?

Not according to the article. The article states that Honda NOW wants to fix these problems themselves, which suggest that they haven't been fixed. I suspect that someone within AVL leaked the information to Bild, which would also explain why other outlets haven't been reporting about the situation.

Honda saying they "now" want to fix vibration problems on their own could mean it's not fixed or it could mean it's already fixed and they just decided AVL wasn't doing a good job helping them fix it. If you read some of the 2018 tech summary on page 3 it goes into some detail about why they have a hard time predicting vibrations until they get to the track. Spoiler: it's because the drive shaft on the chassis dyno (AVL) is attached to a motor and not a tire and doesn't accurately replicate what vibrations will be like on the track.

[subcritical71]

Spoiler: it's because the drive shaft on the chassis dyno (AVL) is attached to a motor and not a tire and doesn't accurately replicate what vibrations will be like on the track.

You hit on a very good point, no matter how much simulation and testing is performed you simply cannot replace track time (augment -> yes, replace -> no). It seems like every year you hear of a team that has 'correlation issues' with some off-track simulation system.

[godlameroso]

Spoiler: it's because the drive shaft on the chassis dyno (AVL) is attached to a motor and not a tire and doesn't accurately replicate what vibrations will be like on the track.

You hit on a very good point, no matter how much simulation and testing is performed you simply cannot replace track time (augment -> yes, replace -> no). It seems like every year you hear of a team that has 'correlation issues' with some off-track simulation system.

Part of on track development is in creating these predictive algorithms. The holy grail is using the track to validate the designs and not the other way around. In a way teams are forced to work this way as actual track time is so limited. Simulation technology is something the general public knows nothing about, yet is a huge driver of car performance.

[gruntguru]

I give up so I will move on...

Good. Now that I have bludgeoned you into submission - you are probably right - that title could have been better worded.

[lio007]

I bit the bullet and purchased a copy:
https://i.ibb.co/Bs7G7bz/1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/r7D6S67/2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/nLwFRnY/3.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/nf3xjPv/4.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/42yNFT7/4-1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/wYfn0CB/5.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LRMt5SL/5-1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1vjJqmX/6.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ss0f6G3/7.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/zr4rG5N/8.jpg

where is this from and where can i buy it and one have it english sub too

Japanese only. Will have to have it translated.

TheJudge features a translation. Very interesting stuff:
https://thejudge13.com/2019/01/08/secre ... proved-hp/

[gruntguru]

TheJudge features a translation. Very interesting stuff:
https://thejudge13.com/2019/01/08/secre ... proved-hp/

Yes good info there. Good to have the "vibration on upshift" clarified. It seems its a torsional vibration issue excited by unusual combustion pressure signatures. It was only occurring on upshift where engine revs drop significantly in a few milliseconds thanks to seamless shifting.

My interpretation is that turboshaft inertia and/or response time of the DBW throttles results in an inappropriate intake manifold pressure for a short time after the shift. I am surprised they weren't able to cure this by either:
- anticipating the shift and commencing movement of the DBW throttles to the ideal post-shift position - before the shift actually happens. (Driver commands upshift, throttles start moving, upshift occurs . . )
- controlling one of the faster response parameters (ignition timing, injection duration or injection timing) to avoid the vibration.

[ringo]

Looks like whenever Honda increase power, they get vibrations... why is this no common with the other engines?
Or maybe the others aren't leaking information as much.

[hurril]

Looks like whenever Honda increase power, they get vibrations... why is this no common with the other engines?
Or maybe the others aren't leaking information as much.

I think Mercedes have had some problems with that as well. I cannot recall when or where I read it now but it does ring a bell. Somewhere