F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

[TimmTurbo]

Can somebody please try to explain where the benefit of sandbagging actually is? I’m a forum member since years and throughout all the seasons this thesis is present. Never got behind it really. The true pace doesn’t give anything away does it. So why on earth you won’t collect the data checking what the package is capable of.

We do some testing in automotive as well and the main target is to be as close to the actual scenario as you can possibly get

[PhillipM]

Because the last thing you want to do is push your rivals into bolting more upgrades on the car that they were perhaps holding back for more validation. They know how fast they are, they don't need to push to the limit because the conditions aren't anything like they will be when they race in Barcelona anyway.

[Just_a_fan]

Sandbagging is a psychological game where one hopes to shock ones opponent when the true pace is revealed. The result, one hopes, is that the opponent is so shocked that it takes them time to recover and one can make significant gains whilst they are doing so.

It used to be relatively easy to do when the teams just ha da stopwatch but these days, is probably harder as there is more data available from lots of sources. One can piece together an idea of an opponent's performance from that data.

[NathanOlder]

So that long run from Hamilton started with a 1.23.1xx, and went on to do about 50 laps. So car was certainly heavy.

[Big Tea]

Can somebody please try to explain where the benefit of sandbagging actually is? I’m a forum member since years and throughout all the seasons this thesis is present. Never got behind it really. The true pace doesn’t give anything away does it. So why on earth you won’t collect the data checking what the package is capable of.

We do some testing in automotive as well and the main target is to be as close to the actual scenario as you can possibly get

The origin of 'sandbagging' was literal. A bag of sand of known weight was hidden so the car could be driven as hard as possible, but the team knowing that x.xx seconds were added by having a sand bag of basalt. A rival not knowing of the added sandbag then had a false target. Pretty much the same as a high fuel run, but the weight stays constant

[motobaleno]

That does not prevent Horner to declare:

- Merc is 0.5s behind Ferrari
- RB is in front of Merc, and will fight with Ferrari

No one on this planet can´t take these words seriously.

you mean that horner didn't say those words or he was joking or what?

[TimmTurbo]

Because the last thing you want to do is push your rivals into bolting more upgrades on the car that they were perhaps holding back for more validation. They know how fast they are, they don't need to push to the limit because the conditions aren't anything like they will be when they race in Barcelona anyway.

Don’t they push anyway regardless what others do ?

[PhillipM]

No, you'll have a risk with some of your more recent parts/developments and mitigating that takes time in simulations, durability testing and wind tunnel work.
If a team knows they're not fast enough because you pushed to the limit, maybe they bolt those on, they work fine and now all you've done is get your rival a faster car.

Of course, if they don't work then even better - but you were already faster anyway so you've gained nothing.

[dans79]

So whats the different between compound 3 and dev compound 3?

[TimmTurbo]

Can somebody please try to explain where the benefit of sandbagging actually is? I’m a forum member since years and throughout all the seasons this thesis is present. Never got behind it really. The true pace doesn’t give anything away does it. So why on earth you won’t collect the data checking what the package is capable of.

We do some testing in automotive as well and the main target is to be as close to the actual scenario as you can possibly get

The origin of 'sandbagging' was literal. A bag of sand of known weight was hidden so the car could be driven as hard as possible, but the team knowing that x.xx seconds were added by having a sand bag of basalt. A rival not knowing of the added sandbag then had a false target. Pretty much the same as a high fuel run, but the weight stays constant

Got your point. Okay let’s say that you have a bucket of sand hidden somewhere and you guess what it adds to the glock. Wouldn’t be it more useful to know exactly what the car does without it ? I think time is too limited and things are too complex hence we are hunting a ghost here.

[Just_a_fan]

I was watching the timing, and he was mid 1:22s before he caught Kimi, and then low to mid 1:24s once he got close.

yes, of course it depends to whom (or is it who?) you're behind of but that isnt a dramatic drop.

"depends on whom" sounds better, although, the structure of the sentence is a bit off, so best to just rephrase - "it depends on who is in front of you"

"Whom" in this case. Simple test: if you can change it to "him" then it's whom, if you can change it to "he" then it's who. I'm behind him so it's "whom I am behind". He is behind me so it's "who is behind me". A bit of reshuffling is required when using this method.

"Whom" when referring to the object of a verb, "who" when referring to the subject of a sentence.

Sorry everyone.

[Just_a_fan]

Hamilton's long stint (All on C2).

[...]

The first part of that looks remarkably consistent.

[TwanV]

No, you'll have a risk with some of your more recent parts/developments and mitigating that takes time in simulations, durability testing and wind tunnel work.
If a team knows they're not fast enough because you pushed to the limit, maybe they bolt those on, they work fine and now all you've done is get your rival a faster car.

Of course, if they don't work then even better - but you were already faster anyway so you've gained nothing.

Haha ok, do you really think other teams are holding back on development because Mercedes could be sandbagging?

"Ah nah Adrian don't put that fast bit on, let's stick with the crap wing that we have and let's go faster in June, I don't feel like doing all that work at the moment and besides we're obviously 2 seconds ahead of Mercedes".

Not going to happen. Projections are made of potential laptime gains after R&D but that is solely resource driven AFAIK, e.g. get the most amount of gain for the least amount of cost, not by how any other team is "trying to appear to" perform.

[TimmTurbo]

No, you'll have a risk with some of your more recent parts/developments and mitigating that takes time in simulations, durability testing and wind tunnel work.
If a team knows they're not fast enough because you pushed to the limit, maybe they bolt those on, they work fine and now all you've done is get your rival a faster car.

Of course, if they don't work then even better - but you were already faster anyway so you've gained nothing.

If they have something promising to Bolt on they will do. Aero, PU and internals are too complex just to Bolt it on anyway

[Ground Effect]

So whats the different between compound 3 and dev compound 3?

D3, development tyre for 2020, it's based off the current C3 tyre