F1 2019 Pre-Season Testing Thread

[dans79]

Forget that we don't need the team with the biggest fan base having an unfair advantage.

[garygph]

Why is it so important for teams to especially cover the underside of the car when it's being put on flatbeds? Besides the FW part, there isn't that much to be seen anyway, am I wrong? There are multiple shots of the rear and the diffuser going around already and other than that nothing new to be seen at this spot.

What's more, the photographers being sent out by the opponent teams take pictures, but again, what would they get to see more than we already do on the pictures on the Internet? Pretty much every detail of the cars is on here, for example.

The underfloor of a Formula 1 car is arguably one of the most critical pieces of the entire car in terms of aerodynamic performance.

That's the simplest answer to your question.

But without looking at the underside of a car you already see everything other than the middle part of the floor. Could someone explain me what’s so critical about the middle section of a floor? Because it looks relatively simple designed.

I think the wear patterns below the tea tray can be of big interest to other teams

[Big Tea]

allow their fans to install nodes to donate the cruncher resources of their computers and phones. Then it would mean that popular teams that engage fans would get more iterations than the team that doesn't engage.

As long as we get paid for our component and power usage, that is ...

Why? the entire point is to support your favorite team. You buy hats, shirts, merchandise already. This would be very similar in that you donate a small percentage of computing power. You wouldn't be REQUIRED to participate, so why would you get paid?

I did a similar thing several years ago when S.E.T.I. was up and running (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) They only took what was 'spare' on the computer but by dividing into packets they managed to increase the amount of data run many fold and had no noticeable effect on me. It did not last for long unfortunately, but they mailed everyone a 'thank you' .

[Zynerji]

Forget that we don't need the team with the biggest fan base having an unfair advantage.

Because they don't already get that with extra FOM payments....

[Zynerji]

As long as we get paid for our component and power usage, that is ...

Why? the entire point is to support your favorite team. You buy hats, shirts, merchandise already. This would be very similar in that you donate a small percentage of computing power. You wouldn't be REQUIRED to participate, so why would you get paid?

I did a similar thing several years ago when S.E.T.I. was up and running (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) They only took what was 'spare' on the computer but by dividing into packets they managed to increase the amount of data run many fold and had no noticeable effect on me. It did not last for long unfortunately, but they mailed everyone a 'thank you' .

Yes. Protein folding is huge as well. I believe it is called Folding@Home

[MtthsMlw]

As long as we get paid for our component and power usage, that is ...

Why? the entire point is to support your favorite team. You buy hats, shirts, merchandise already. This would be very similar in that you donate a small percentage of computing power. You wouldn't be REQUIRED to participate, so why would you get paid?

I did a similar thing several years ago when S.E.T.I. was up and running (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) They only took what was 'spare' on the computer but by dividing into packets they managed to increase the amount of data run many fold and had no noticeable effect on me. It did not last for long unfortunately, but they mailed everyone a 'thank you' .

This is still running I think, I have it installed for a few years now.

[Zynerji]

BOINC is the platform.

Blockchain would be far better, however.

[Sieper]

As long as we get paid for our component and power usage, that is ...

Why? the entire point is to support your favorite team. You buy hats, shirts, merchandise already. This would be very similar in that you donate a small percentage of computing power. You wouldn't be REQUIRED to participate, so why would you get paid?

I did a similar thing several years ago when S.E.T.I. was up and running (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) They only took what was 'spare' on the computer but by dividing into packets they managed to increase the amount of data run many fold and had no noticeable effect on me. It did not last for long unfortunately, but they mailed everyone a 'thank you' .

The S.I.T.I. Is already hard enough (intra).

[Big Tea]

Why? the entire point is to support your favorite team. You buy hats, shirts, merchandise already. This would be very similar in that you donate a small percentage of computing power. You wouldn't be REQUIRED to participate, so why would you get paid?

I did a similar thing several years ago when S.E.T.I. was up and running (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) They only took what was 'spare' on the computer but by dividing into packets they managed to increase the amount of data run many fold and had no noticeable effect on me. It did not last for long unfortunately, but they mailed everyone a 'thank you' .

This is still running I think, I have it installed for a few years now.

Ah, thanks. If its back up I will reg again. Cant have green men slipping by unnoticed, can we?

Just checked, I think it was 2003 to 2007. Dont know why I gave up though

[Zynerji]

I moved to RC5 hash cracking in 2007! No more SETI for me!

[LM10]

Thanks for your answers, Sierra117, PhillipM and garygph!

[GrandAxe]

The attempt to limit CFD is sound, though I suspect, is impossible to police.

The bigger teams are so well financed and resourced that they can buy engineering and coder services to tailor any CFD software of their choice to the parameters of their wind tunnels and their supercomputers (Merc used to have a supercomputer, but I think they spun it off as a subsidiary biz some years ago - not so sure though).

The sort of coupling above would result in very tight correlation between CFD and wind tunnel - with that, the wind tunnel can be accurately simulated. Result? The restriction on wind tunnel time and the cost caps that are based on it would become meaningless.

Some years ago, Richard Branson tried to compete in F1 based on a car whose aero was produced by CFD only. No wind tunnel. I can't remember the name of the team now, but the effort failed.
These days, the outcome would most likely be different. Technology has come very far since then, particularly in areas like Machine Learning and computation speed.

EDIT: Richard Bransons team was called Virgin Racing. Here's their CFD only car (Wikipedia):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... z_2010.jpg

It's not an attempt, for years now (I believe 2008-ish) the amount of CFD is limited by the amount of gigaflops of data you may process.

Its an attempt, because its impossible to police. For example, a senior employee can load a terabyte of data unto a usb stick for use on a powerful home computer - these can now be as powerful as the supercomputers of yesteryear. How is the FIA ever going to be able to stop that?

Data backup is usually handled by 3rd party, offsite companies. The FIA is never going to be able to stop backups doing walkies into the data owners pockets, from where it can be farmed out to any number of external computers.

[GrandAxe]

The attempt to limit CFD is sound, though I suspect, is impossible to police.

The bigger teams are so well financed and resourced that they can buy engineering and coder services to tailor any CFD software of their choice to the parameters of their wind tunnels and their supercomputers (Merc used to have a supercomputer, but I think they spun it off as a subsidiary biz some years ago - not so sure though).

The sort of coupling above would result in very tight correlation between CFD and wind tunnel - with that, the wind tunnel can be accurately simulated. Result? The restriction on wind tunnel time and the cost caps that are based on it would become meaningless.

Some years ago, Richard Branson tried to compete in F1 based on a car whose aero was produced by CFD only. No wind tunnel. I can't remember the name of the team now, but the effort failed.
These days, the outcome would most likely be different. Technology has come very far since then, particularly in areas like Machine Learning and computation speed.

EDIT: Richard Bransons team was called Virgin Racing. Here's their CFD only car (Wikipedia):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... z_2010.jpg

It's not an attempt, for years now (I believe 2008-ish) the amount of CFD is limited by the amount of gigaflops of data you may process.

Last time I saw numbers, it was like a 20 TFlop limit, and now you can get that in a full tower Desktop with 4 GPU's.


That's why uncapping CFD, but only in a distributed manner, is the best way. It directly prevents AMD/Intel from coming in and building Super Computers (raising costs), and relies on the fanbase to donate everything over the 20 TFlop limit.


I don't like the even distribution model, as I'm sure that people would want to donate extra time to Williams (for example) to help them catch up. It would be interesting to see if the fanbase would react in such a way to prevent a single team from completely dominating (year after year), and switching their support to the underdogs...


Lots of fan engagement is out there if Liberty were to really dig into it.

I'm fully on board with you on most of what you've said.

Creating a distribution model for fans though, would lead to a whole new can of worms. Most of that would be around data theft, some would be around computational resource theft, but by far the worst would be the rise of mafia-like groups who would see the trading of computational tasks as digital cocaine.

[Zynerji]

It's not an attempt, for years now (I believe 2008-ish) the amount of CFD is limited by the amount of gigaflops of data you may process.

Last time I saw numbers, it was like a 20 TFlop limit, and now you can get that in a full tower Desktop with 4 GPU's.


That's why uncapping CFD, but only in a distributed manner, is the best way. It directly prevents AMD/Intel from coming in and building Super Computers (raising costs), and relies on the fanbase to donate everything over the 20 TFlop limit.


I don't like the even distribution model, as I'm sure that people would want to donate extra time to Williams (for example) to help them catch up. It would be interesting to see if the fanbase would react in such a way to prevent a single team from completely dominating (year after year), and switching their support to the underdogs...


Lots of fan engagement is out there if Liberty were to really dig into it.

I'm fully on board with you on most of what you've said.

Creating a distribution model for fans though, would lead to a whole new can of worms. Most of that would be around data theft, some would be around computational resource theft, but by far the worst would be the rise of mafia-like groups who would see the trading of computational tasks as digital cocaine.

Have Liberty contact me. I'll be happy to run their blockchain software integration, and solve their cost cap policing at the same time...

[GrandAxe]

Last time I saw numbers, it was like a 20 TFlop limit, and now you can get that in a full tower Desktop with 4 GPU's.


That's why uncapping CFD, but only in a distributed manner, is the best way. It directly prevents AMD/Intel from coming in and building Super Computers (raising costs), and relies on the fanbase to donate everything over the 20 TFlop limit.


I don't like the even distribution model, as I'm sure that people would want to donate extra time to Williams (for example) to help them catch up. It would be interesting to see if the fanbase would react in such a way to prevent a single team from completely dominating (year after year), and switching their support to the underdogs...


Lots of fan engagement is out there if Liberty were to really dig into it.

I'm fully on board with you on most of what you've said.

Creating a distribution model for fans though, would lead to a whole new can of worms. Most of that would be around data theft, some would be around computational resource theft, but by far the worst would be the rise of mafia-like groups who would see the trading of computational tasks as digital cocaine.

Have Liberty contact me. I'll be happy to run their blockchain software integration, and solve their cost cap policing at the same time...

Since you know blockchain, you would also know that computing CFD can easily replace Proof-of-Work in a Bitcoin-like system; that's where the mafia-like groups step in. Just like with Bitcoin, even if done with the best intentions it would lead down a greasy rabbits warren. F1 can't afford that sort of image.