2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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b2bL44
b2bL44
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Joe Saward's thoughts on Williams: https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00471

"I am a dyed-in-the-wool Williams fan and I hate seeing what is happening to the team today. It actually pains me. My first Grand Prix as a spectator was the team's first victory back in 1979 and I gradually got to know everyone involved from the mid-Eighties onwards. I was very close to FW, one of the most inspiring people in F1, and Sir Patrick is a wonderful voice of reality, although a little more muted these days. I was also a huge fan of Ginny, Lady Williams, who wrote the best book I ever read about F1 (A Different Kind of Life) and who was so important in the way the team developed. I'm very glad that her role has been highlighted by the recent documentary about the team. What has happened in recent years is incredibly sad. Frank had at least three succession plans that all went wrong, the first as long ago as 2005 when Chris Chapple was appointed CEO. In 2006 Adam Parr arrived, a very clever man, but he made important enemies early on (read Bernie Ecclestone) and in 2012 he was thrown out with FW getting nudged to make the move (so they say) by Mr E, when there were discussions about Williams getting an annual historic payment. And then, of course, there was Toto Wolff, who arrived as a shareholder and ran the team for a bit before being lured away (how could he refuse such a deal?) by Mercedes."

"Paddy Lowe, the chief technical officer, is a very clever engineer but being a clever engineer does not necessarily mean you are a great leader. It is something we have seen over and over in F1 history. Leadership is about more than brain power. In any case he is now on "a leave of absence” from the team “for personal reasons”, which is an explanation which simply draws more attention to the situation because it is so clearly corporate gobbledygook. It has been known for some time that Lowe's complicated deal with the team, including share options and (so they say) massive compensation if he was to depart, was getting in the way. Some say that Williams could not afford to part ways with him, which would explain the leave of absence, which means that he has not actually left the team, but is no longer actually involved, which in turn means that the parties can now negotiate/take legal action, without it impacting on the day-to-day life of the team. In any case, no-one in F1 is expecting Lowe to return from his leave of absence. One can, of course, blame him for failing to produce a good enough car for two consecutive seasons, with different design teams."

"The 2019 car, if nothing else, does not seem to have any fundamental flaws, apart from the fact that it was late arriving and so is far behind its rivals in terms of development. There is talk of insufficient money but when you do the numbers, while Williams has lost a lot of revenues of late, because of the poor results, it still seems to have had a bigger budget than direct rival Force India/Racing Point, which has produced much better results, despite going through a period of administration and having facilities that are far less impressive than those at Grove. If money is short at Williams, then there will likely be a big crisis this year. I hope not."

"There are some who argue that if a team has two consecutive bad cars, then the management must be questioned because the fault lies in the choice of technical director, as well as with the technical director himself. I would phrase it slightly differently: I would replace the word "management", with the word "leadership". They are not the same thing at all. If one looks at Sauber, one can say that Fred Vasseur did a terrific job to revive the Swiss team. I don't disagree with that in some respects, but I think that the thing that got the team's staff willing to go the extra mile was having Charles Leclerc driving. He was an engine for progress (not the only one, but an important one nonetheless). This year they have a bigger budget and have hired some good people and we will see if the progress is sustained. It will be interesting. Racing teams succeed through good leadership, even if they have small budgets. That is the key. Leadership usually begins with the shareholders but can be provided by the management, the leading engineer or even a driver, but it has to be something that allows people to do their jobs and inspires them at the same time. If the ownership will not let its managers operate then the team will fail. It's to do with respect more than anything. If one sees what Gunther and Otmar do with the teams they manage, you see how it works, on small budgets."

"The thing that slightly alarms me is that there will come a point at which Mercedes will need to decide whether to continue with Williams and might conclude that it could be a better idea to go with McLaren... I understand that Williams does not wish to become a satellite team of a big manufacturer, but if you cannot hack it with the big boys, this is the best strategic choice. That might be difficult for Team Willy to accept, given its history, but it might also be the best path to survive. All the customer teams have the dream of one day picking up a manufacturer of their own, but this is hard to do. I believe that if F1 cuts its costs and stays with the same brilliant engines (and does more to promote the astonishing achievements of recent years), the groundwork will be laid for more manufacturers to get involved. As the engines develop, the law of diminishing returns kicks in, which means that newcomers can catch up more easily... Changes to the engine rules simply spreads the field out and pushes up the budgets..."

zeph
zeph
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Crazy thought: if Williams F1 were to fold, its last victory would be Maldonado’s in Spain, 2012.

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Joined: 18 Feb 2011, 00:16

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Another crazy thought: Kubica won’t make his GP comeback.

Massively unlikely though and of no relevance, sorry!

madly
madly
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010, 23:20

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Two new partnerships announced:

ROKIT WILLIAMS RACING ANNOUNCES GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP WITH TATA COMMUNICATIONS
https://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/ ... unications

ROKIT WILLIAMS RACING AND ATHLETIC PROPULSION LABS ANNOUNCE NEW PARTNERSHIP
https://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/ ... artnership

Espresso
Espresso
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 00:22
Just putting it out there but if Williams get away with the extra front wheel suspension element thing and the wing mirror design as unless I am missing something they haven't been made illegal yet.

That would make paddy look quite good lol also Williams would look rather dim for getting rid of him
Yes, these 'might be possible illegal parts' are investigated on 'Clarification request' from other teams. and can be modified/removed without to much influence on the car.
Message a bit 'blow out of proportions'

PL was handicapped as the factory only wanted to work 9 to 5 and no more 'unpaid' over-hours to revolt against sacking a lot of the management layer and have to work unpaid overtime.
Then you could already expect things start to delay with a snowball effect...


With PL out the problem is not solved. If Clair would put her pride aside and stick to the business side and bring back in litlle brother Johnny for the operational part, I've got a good gutfeeling that would be the road back to success.
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munudeges
munudeges
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Espresso wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 01:02
...ooow wait....Jonathan Williams got siderailed (go directly into a lifelong jailed corner...and Sis Claire mobbed the shop.....Williams is a political entity.....
If it was one team destined to descend into a political mess, never to return, I thought it would be Ferrari. I never thought it would be Williams, but, blood is thicker than water as it turns out.

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Espresso wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:05
With PL out the problem is not solved. If Clair would put her pride aside and stick to the business side and bring back in litlle brother Johnny for the operational part, I've got a good gutfeeling that would be the road back to success.
I don't think that would solve some of the issues though, imagine Claire takes a step away and only deals with the commercial/sponsorship side. How is she meant to get new investors/partners/sponsors onboard, by saying..."don't worry, I'm not in charge anymore"? I think it's time we see a change in the upper management.

True, this is a family based business and that they have emotional ties which could lead to not wanting to trust outsiders to look after their baby, so to speak, but Frank is (too?) old now and we don't know if Claire is somehow handicapped by having to run the team how she thinks will make Frank happy or if she's in complete control.

I would love to see them remain completely independent but modern F1 just doesn't allow for that business model at the moment, will that model comeback? maybe. Can Williams survive as they are until then? Maybe not.

Williams need to do something drastic now, like play REALLY nice with M-AMG and consider the thought of the team being ran by someone other than a Williams.

gibells
gibells
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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madly wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:55


ROKIT WILLIAMS RACING ANNOUNCES GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP WITH TATA COMMUNICATIONS
https://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/ ... unications
This is good news.

Left field thought here. Williams carry out the works for Jaguar's FE team. Could the TATA Group (parent company of JLR) begin to tie in to Williams, and slowly facilitate a longer term takeover?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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KeiKo403 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:36
Espresso wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:05
With PL out the problem is not solved. If Clair would put her pride aside and stick to the business side and bring back in litlle brother Johnny for the operational part, I've got a good gutfeeling that would be the road back to success.
I don't think that would solve some of the issues though, imagine Claire takes a step away and only deals with the commercial/sponsorship side. How is she meant to get new investors/partners/sponsors onboard, by saying..."don't worry, I'm not in charge anymore"? I think it's time we see a change in the upper management.

True, this is a family based business and that they have emotional ties which could lead to not wanting to trust outsiders to look after their baby, so to speak, but Frank is (too?) old now and we don't know if Claire is somehow handicapped by having to run the team how she thinks will make Frank happy or if she's in complete control.

I would love to see them remain completely independent but modern F1 just doesn't allow for that business model at the moment, will that model comeback? maybe. Can Williams survive as they are until then? Maybe not.

Williams need to do something drastic now, like play REALLY nice with M-AMG and consider the thought of the team being ran by someone other than a Williams.
Though i am far from a fan from the guy, Eric Bouillier would be the right man to 'fix' things. BUT, only if Claire AND Frank step away completely from any interfering. Eric @ Mclaren was the wrong person. @ Lotus, he did fairly well to be honest. I think if he gets appointed and free range at fixing the situation, he'd be perfect actually. He'd boot the people that are keeping the team down, and at the same time he's a person that can boost people. I've had a quite negative opinion of him at Mclaren, but outside of that, after looking into some stuff, i have to admit he's got quite a lot of potential. They should not, however, have him on free range completely, but be partnered with Bob Fernley.

What does get mentioned by another poster here though is that there's the danger of losing Mercedes.
Losing a customer will make it costier for Mercedes. It also isn't the best of exposure being the best factory team,
but having one team dragging the name down by ending last contineously.
I'm pretty sure Mclaren would welcome Mercedes with open arms.
It could usher in a change for Mclaren to Mercedes again and Williams to Renault.

I don't even think Renault would look negative at that: Mercedes, having their engines, is able to beat them, which never looks too good (works team getting beat by other team with their own engine). That won't happen with Williams.

as for the new sponsor agreements: that is finally some 'good' news after all the negative.
i don't know when or how this agreement was really made, but it is positive anyway,
as the recent form and crisis at williams would give sponsors an opportunity to back out from a pre-arranged deal,
and if it was not a pre-arranged deal that got announced only now, it means it actually is a fresh deal, which is also positive to happen and sponsors to 'take on' if they're in this crisis. even though it also might give them an opportunity that wouldn't be there if they were in healthy situation (discount).
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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FW17
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:10
Eric @ Mclaren was the wrong person. @ Lotus, he did fairly well to be honest.
He ran Lotus into the ground, he had no handle on cost, debts mounted, he bailed and the team were eating leftover food from other teams

If you need someone to liquidate the team Eric would be the right person







I would suggest Martin Whitmarsh over Eric

skwdenyer
skwdenyer
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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FW17 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:46
Manoah2u wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:10
Eric @ Mclaren was the wrong person. @ Lotus, he did fairly well to be honest.
He ran Lotus into the ground, he had no handle on cost, debts mounted, he bailed and the team were eating leftover food from other teams

If you need someone to liquidate the team Eric would be the right person







I would suggest Martin Whitmarsh over Eric
I thought that the problem at Lotus was that Genii kept saying "yes, Eric, that budget's fine, we'll put in the money" and then, err, didn't? Or have I mis-remembered?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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skwdenyer wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:21
FW17 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:46
Manoah2u wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:10
Eric @ Mclaren was the wrong person. @ Lotus, he did fairly well to be honest.
He ran Lotus into the ground, he had no handle on cost, debts mounted, he bailed and the team were eating leftover food from other teams

If you need someone to liquidate the team Eric would be the right person







I would suggest Martin Whitmarsh over Eric
I thought that the problem at Lotus was that Genii kept saying "yes, Eric, that budget's fine, we'll put in the money" and then, err, didn't? Or have I mis-remembered?
that's how i recalled it too.

and whitmarsh over bouillier? nah, whitmarsh is a friendly guy, who seems to lack hardness needed. he'd be the absolute wrong guy as he wouldn't have the b**ls to give people the boot. also, supposedly, he's been held responsible at Mclaren for losing Vodafone sponsorship early, and for having Mercedes pull out any help after the Honda announcement. In other words, he didnt slam on the table to keep Mercedes giving vital information, and prevent Mercedes from not giving updates. he also was held responsible for letting Hamilton go too easy.
Whatever you think of the guy, this is what surrounds him. He also has not been in F1 since what, 2013?
Last edited by Manoah2u on 13 Mar 2019, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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FW17
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:55
skwdenyer wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:21
FW17 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:46


He ran Lotus into the ground, he had no handle on cost, debts mounted, he bailed and the team were eating leftover food from other teams

If you need someone to liquidate the team Eric would be the right person







I would suggest Martin Whitmarsh over Eric
I thought that the problem at Lotus was that Genii kept saying "yes, Eric, that budget's fine, we'll put in the money" and then, err, didn't? Or have I mis-remembered?
that's how i recalled it too.

No that was Eric's friend Mansoor

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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As a long time fan of Williams, the current state of the team saddens me.

I'm not going to pretend to know how to fix the team, but watching the Netflix series and you see the MEETING where Claire once again states, this time to what looks like a large portion of the workforce, that Williams will become a B-Team "over (her) dead body" you start to see why they're struggling.

Clinging on to that independence is not feasible in the modern F1 world.

When even Mclaren are rumoured to be looking to increase their ties to PU supplier Renault, you can see that going it alone against the might of Merc, Ferrari and RBR who all have junior teams, is just too big of a struggle.

Perhaps Williams should be looking at how they can strengthen their ties to Merc and at ways of making better use of their budget.

I do get the impression that CW is a chip off the old FW block and that the way the team is being run is not working.
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ScottB
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Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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A real danger for Williams is that, should the sport sort out a budget cap, it’s not a stretch to imagine new, Haas style teams joining with help from Merc and Renault, both potentially pushing Williams further from the front, and perhaps closing off that ‘B Team’ option to them.

It’s tough, I’m sure the ‘goal’ is to build back to the front and get manufacturer backing, but they are a long way from that. Might be better to accept a few years of Merc help, give some breathing room to properly restructure the team while hopefully still able to compete, with a goal of returning to ‘full’ constructor status later?

As it stands, if you were looking to join the sport as an engine maker, there are 3 teams available for such a partnership, Mclaren, Racing Point and Williams. I struggle to think of a reason to pick Williams over the other two right now...