2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

[Manoah2u]

Workers from Chemist Warehouse in two states have gone on an indefinite strike over what they claim is a widespread culture of sexual harassment and labour exploitation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10894 ... 40x627.jpg

https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/W ... 436724.jpg

oh dear.....way to go. that'll do williams publicity good.
i wonder how long it'll take before williams employees go on strike, if we were to believe what has been mentioned on reddit about the company and specifically HR.


as for the article above from dieter rencken.......

You will never read in the press that Williams has turned itself into a junior team or a B-team.”

instead, we read in the press that Williams doesn't have it's cars ready, they are illegal, they have financial difficulties, they lose important sponsors, they lose their TD, and are dead last in the field, and have to buy products from other teams to be able to survive, and get free reign for pirelli testing because their car is so slow and behind they won't gain an unfair advantage.

it's admirable, but mistaken. or at the very least, they cannot continue like they are.

oh and above all, it's a blatant lie as in 2014 they were exactly that, a Mercedes B-team. Bottas there, Susie Wolff there, and Toto having a stake in the team, and they were propelled to the front. In name they literally weren't, but in all reality, they were. And it's the first time in years they flourished with that concept.

for now, they should use a temporary haas-like project, where they aren't a b-team at all, but simply buy products from Mercedes' for example with a discount. they atleast have a car that can compete and finish atleast not dead last. learn from those parts, re-structure, and start developing a car for 2021 to come back with a vengeance.

as for the nonsense regarding sattelite teams being the cause of their problems, that's a load of bs and the usual behaviour of defending Williams through pink glasses and laying the blame somewhere else, which is exactly williams' problem for, well, decades.

i don't know what would be worse. as for instead of getting 'sattelite teams', after losing a few teams a while ago, there could have been the situation, which was discussed and investigated quite realistically, where the big 3 - or the big 4 if you'd include mclaren, would not have just 2 cars, but bring 3 cars.

Williams is living on nostalgia, and are clueless that it has faded. Hiring PL seems to be exactly that 'nostalgic' thinking process. They had great success with him before, so just hire him back and we'll be fine.
Just like PL mentioned in an interview before he kept honour to himself and left.

[ripleysend]

BTW,

https://www.grandprix.com/news/mclaren- ... stone.html

Bernie Ecclestone says (both) Williams (and McLaren) need new management.

The once-great F1 teams are now struggling, and former F1 supremo Ecclestone thinks the problem is the people in charge.

"They are no longer in the hands of super competitive men like Ron Dennis and Frank Williams," he told Corriere della Sera.
To come back strong, they have to find another Ron and another Frank."

Today, Zak Brown leads McLaren, while Frank Williams' daughter Claire is in charge at Williams.
When asked about other F1 teams, Ecclestone said he is looking forward to the new Red Bull-Honda collaboration.

"I suggested this alliance to Red Bull three years ago,
...Honda is competitive by nature...."

On the sport more generally, Ecclestone said F1 could survive without the FIA and its president Jean Todt.

"Jean did a good job of convincing Liberty that they need the FIA to change things. But F1 could even exist without them.
The teams and promoters could write the rules themselves and race under another name.
Personally I'm not for democracy, we need a dictator who says 'here are the rules'."

He also thinks it is possible Mercedes will not agree terms with Liberty for a 2021 Concorde Agreement.

"I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have an official team anymore," said Ecclestone.

Ecclestone hitting the nail on the head here.

anyway, i must say i'm happy to see Williams atleast is present in melbourne.
i wonder though whether they'll actually race, or simply perform the start from the pit straight,
and then drive a lap back into the pits and park the cars.

I'd take personal issue, after direct experience, of the assumption that Zak is not fiercely competitive.

[Capharol]

Workers from Chemist Warehouse in two states have gone on an indefinite strike over what they claim is a widespread culture of sexual harassment and labour exploitation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10894 ... 40x627.jpg

https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/W ... 436724.jpg

oh dear.....way to go. that'll do williams publicity good.
i wonder how long it'll take before williams employees go on strike, if we were to believe what has been mentioned on reddit about the company and specifically HR.


as for the article above from dieter rencken.......

You will never read in the press that Williams has turned itself into a junior team or a B-team.”

instead, we read in the press that Williams doesn't have it's cars ready, they are illegal, they have financial difficulties, they lose important sponsors, they lose their TD, and are dead last in the field, and have to buy products from other teams to be able to survive, and get free reign for pirelli testing because their car is so slow and behind they won't gain an unfair advantage.

it's admirable, but mistaken. or at the very least, they cannot continue like they are.

oh and above all, it's a blatant lie as in 2014 they were exactly that, a Mercedes B-team. Bottas there, Susie Wolff there, and Toto having a stake in the team, and they were propelled to the front. In name they literally weren't, but in all reality, they were. And it's the first time in years they flourished with that concept.

for now, they should use a temporary haas-like project, where they aren't a b-team at all, but simply buy products from Mercedes' for example with a discount. they atleast have a car that can compete and finish atleast not dead last. learn from those parts, re-structure, and start developing a car for 2021 to come back with a vengeance.

as for the nonsense regarding sattelite teams being the cause of their problems, that's a load of bs and the usual behaviour of defending Williams through pink glasses and laying the blame somewhere else, which is exactly williams' problem for, well, decades.

i don't know what would be worse. as for instead of getting 'sattelite teams', after losing a few teams a while ago, there could have been the situation, which was discussed and investigated quite realistically, where the big 3 - or the big 4 if you'd include mclaren, would not have just 2 cars, but bring 3 cars.

Williams is living on nostalgia, and are clueless that it has faded. Hiring PL seems to be exactly that 'nostalgic' thinking process. They had great success with him before, so just hire him back and we'll be fine.
Just like PL mentioned in an interview before he kept honour to himself and left.

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

[Manoah2u]

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

yes, but claire isn't frank, and these are far different times.

[Capharol]

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

yes, but claire isn't frank, and these are far different times.

yes, unfortunatly, but it is just sad seeing such a great team going down the drain

[Manoah2u]

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

yes, but claire isn't frank, and these are far different times.

yes, unfortunatly, but it is just sad seeing such a great team going down the drain

that above all though. i used to be a fan of williams, with good ol' Nigel at the wheel,
then Senna (i'm still heartbroken by his death), and Hill and Villeneuve beating Schumacher.
Montoya @ Williams was great.

It's sad that Williams didn't get the light when seeing their 'resurgance' in 2014 thanks to Mercedes' involvement.
They need exactly that to get back at the front.

Their only hope is to keep things fruitful with Mercedes, and if Ecclestone is right that in 2021 Mercedes pulls the plug from their F1 team (which could happen) and sells it, then they should snatch Toto Wolff and become Mercedes works team instead of letting it go back to Mclaren.

[FW17]

I believe the larger budget they have allows them to the gear box and other parts in house, but these are not killing them


I wonder what effect Porsche ending their wind tunnel deal with the team has on the finances

[dren]

I'm just glad the team has made it to the first race looking ready to go.

[garygph]

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

yes, but claire isn't frank, and these are far different times.

And if IIRC Bernie was involved in helping them and obviously that is no longer an option

[Manoah2u]

oh this sounds all so familiar, think of the mid 70's where Frank had the same problems, No parts, No money....

yes, but claire isn't frank, and these are far different times.

And if IIRC Bernie was involved in helping them and obviously that is no longer an option

exactly.

it's funny in a way, though. some articles mentioned that the 1998+ concorde agreement had a huge impact on Williams. I don't know if there's really any base to that to be honest, but, if true, then they have bernie to thank for. on the other hand though, bernie would not let them slip away and would find ways to fix things.
can't live with him, can't live without him

in all fairness though, its all fun and games, and they can theoretically blame paddy as much as they want, and all criteria like the above, but the fact remains the same: the other teams do manage. and teams like haas and force india/racing point operate(d) on a far, far, faaar smaller budget than williams. williams should be able to do better.

what puzzles me too is that, not too long ago, they managed to build their own transmission, which was innovative and the tiniest one ever, in the 2012 FW34 and '13 FW35

i mean just look at it





i know this gearbox was designed with the v8 and 2012 rules in mind,
but the knowledge must be still around, they should be able to reproduce this without too much of a burden i'd be inclined to believe.

or has this simply to do with the maximum amount of engines/gearboxes the team may use throughout a year and these tiny gearboxes have a higher wear and thus fail potency?

perhaps it's simple for me to say, but, i'd expect them to have those gearboxes still laying around somewhere.
can't they 'just' change the gear ratios to adapt it to the hybrids v6?

i mean, they're driving ALUMINUM gearboxes right now because they don't see the cost vs result as worthwile.
but how can an aluminum gearbox be cheaper than using a gearbox that has been invented, designed, tested, and all sorts of experience back to 2012 and 2013?

[Raleigh]

Williams have the know how to build carbon gearboxes, it’s a matter of cost to produce approx 15 carbon gearboxes a year in exchange for small weight distribution gains.

You can’t reuse the gearboxes, carbon fibre has a stress life.

That’s why they’ve gone back to aluminium, the money is better invested elsewhere (at least from Williams point of view).

[PhillipM]

There's not much advantage in a carbon vs aluminium gearbox casing. The weight advantage is low for a lot of extra cost and complexity and they're generally slighlty bulkier to boot so your packaging for rear dampers, etc, might actually be slightly better with alloy.
Everyone slates them for it but it's a very sensible decision when that money shows far better returns elsewhere.

[Lynx]

Have Williams ever used carbon gearbox? On FW33 - FW35 cars the gearboxes were alluminium, not CF.

viewtopic.php?t=14663&start=345

[Manoah2u]

There's not much advantage in a carbon vs aluminium gearbox casing. The weight advantage is low for a lot of extra cost and complexity and they're generally slighlty bulkier to boot so your packaging for rear dampers, etc, might actually be slightly better with alloy.
Everyone slates them for it but it's a very sensible decision when that money shows far better returns elsewhere.

There's not much advantage in a carbon vs aluminium gearbox casing. The weight advantage is low for a lot of extra cost and complexity and they're generally slighlty bulkier to boot so your packaging for rear dampers, etc, might actually be slightly better with alloy.
Everyone slates them for it but it's a very sensible decision when that money shows far better returns elsewhere.

good points.

in regards to those stress levels, i'm totally offtopic here though, but is there any info regarding that?
there are more and more sportscars being built with carbon fiber structural parts, roofs, etc. etc.
hell, there are even carbon fiber replacement body parts for (vintage) sportscars.
how much 'wear' do carbon parts actually have?

[Maritimer]

There's not much advantage in a carbon vs aluminium gearbox casing. The weight advantage is low for a lot of extra cost and complexity and they're generally slighlty bulkier to boot so your packaging for rear dampers, etc, might actually be slightly better with alloy.
Everyone slates them for it but it's a very sensible decision when that money shows far better returns elsewhere.

There's not much advantage in a carbon vs aluminium gearbox casing. The weight advantage is low for a lot of extra cost and complexity and they're generally slighlty bulkier to boot so your packaging for rear dampers, etc, might actually be slightly better with alloy.
Everyone slates them for it but it's a very sensible decision when that money shows far better returns elsewhere.

good points.

in regards to those stress levels, i'm totally offtopic here though, but is there any info regarding that?
there are more and more sportscars being built with carbon fiber structural parts, roofs, etc. etc.
hell, there are even carbon fiber replacement body parts for (vintage) sportscars.
how much 'wear' do carbon parts actually have?

Body panels have an indefinite life, gearboxes in F1 are different because they're stress members and support half the load of the vehicle. As for tubs and such I'd imagine on road cars they've been sufficiently beefed up to where the life cycle is longer than that of the person who buys the car.