Red Bull RB15

[mantikos]

...Merc always have used high downforce front wings with low downforce/drag aero at the back.

I didn't get that from the aricle, but I'll bite - what would that achieve in your opinion?

[Maplesoup]

Fact remains Honda is still few tenths down on Merc, Tanabe was brutally honest and mentioned this on post race. Rb messed up the setup and lack of preseason running didnt help this. Once they understand the tyres, they will be able to develop the chassis very quickly. The secret aero guy at BBC did have some gem of insight, Merc always have used high downforce front wings with low downforce/drag aero at the back.

So i think you are misunderstanding the article a little bit. For starters the word drag wasn't mentioned once in the article. The front wing mercedes is running, alot like red bull is capable of generating alot more downforce than the front wing that ferrari is using it doesn't mean that they always use high downforce at the front. The idea is as they add more downforce to the rear most likely by changing the barge boards to work the diffuser harder that mercedes will have an easier time balancing the extra downforce at the rear with the front wing at the front. However Ferrari's Inboard style wing will probably struggle to generate enough downforce to balance further downforce development at the rear.

I believe this is why Redbull came out saying that their front wing concept had move develop-ability because they can create more downforce to balance out the rear.

FYI for anyone looking for the secret aerodynamicist article its here "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705"

[roon]

Mclaren always thought the extra couple of horsepower from straightening that out wasn't worth the aero downside - RB obviously thought the same, even if they did it last year in the TR.

I don't think it's primarily an aero issue, rather more of a chassis and packaging issue. Merc's intake elbow requires a large pocket in the monocoque, which may affect fuel tank design, placement of other components, as well as chassis dimensions, weight and rigidity. The air filters seem to generally be in the same location on these Merc and Honda front-compressor engines. One just commits more interior volume to a longer inlet pipe downstream of it.

[McMika98]

So i think you are misunderstanding the article a little bit. For starters the word drag wasn't mentioned once in the article. The front wing mercedes is running, alot like red bull is capable of generating alot more downforce than the front wing that ferrari is using it doesn't mean that they always use high downforce at the front. The idea is as they add more downforce to the rear most likely by changing the barge boards to work the diffuser harder that mercedes will have an easier time balancing the extra downforce at the rear with the front wing at the front. However Ferrari's Inboard style wing will probably struggle to generate enough downforce to balance further downforce development at the rear.

I was loosely recommending the article. The drag is something i added, Merc have always used low rake longer wheelbase setup which is inherently lower drag compared to the RedBull, Ferrari rake concept. They also always had multi element front wing to generate high downforce.
The new rear wing has already increased downforce at the rear and either front wing concept should work. One will generate more downforce at the expense of drag. On high downforce circuit it will work but on others it will be a compromise unless they can get to the front. I dont quite think the Ferrari concept is leading to a blind alley because the bargeboard, it will work on most circuits as effectively.

[Godius]

Pre-season testing week 1 (1) v. Melbourne (2):

1.


2.

[Singabule]

How can you compare one bargeboard is bigger than other as maximum dimensions already reduced this year by new regulations, and it is limited by the rake concept as well, as your bottom would hit tarmac in high rake concept. And how about outwashing effect from the revised RB FW, as based on those article, at the end the air would driven to top of the tires instead of outside of it. Also, while maintain its big FW, RB has the smallest RW (except STR) for the race, since long ago, so could it be their diffuser that is so damn good?

[carisi2k]

those 2 photos are not comparable as one is in the braking area and the other looks like it is under acceleration.

[Maplesoup]

How can you compare one bargeboard is bigger than other as maximum dimensions already reduced this year by new regulations, and it is limited by the rake concept as well, as your bottom would hit tarmac in high rake concept. And how about outwashing effect from the revised RB FW, as based on those article, at the end the air would driven to top of the tires instead of outside of it. Also, while maintain its big FW, RB has the smallest RW (except STR) for the race, since long ago, so could it be their diffuser that is so damn good?

Well there are 2 different areas of the bargeboards really.
There are those that run in front of the side pod and behind the wheel, these being the ones that had to be reduced in height this year.
The second area is around the side of the sidepods these have not been affected by any change if rules but ferrari appear to have bigger ones this year and Mercedes slightly smaller going off what the aero guy is talking about.

So that's how you compare the different years.

[Singabule]

How can you compare one bargeboard is bigger than other as maximum dimensions already reduced this year by new regulations, and it is limited by the rake concept as well, as your bottom would hit tarmac in high rake concept. And how about outwashing effect from the revised RB FW, as based on those article, at the end the air would driven to top of the tires instead of outside of it. Also, while maintain its big FW, RB has the smallest RW (except STR) for the race, since long ago, so could it be their diffuser that is so damn good?

Well there are 2 different areas of the bargeboards really.
There are those that run in front of the side pod and behind the wheel, these being the ones that had to be reduced in height this year.
The second area is around the side of the sidepods these have not been affected by any change if rules but ferrari appear to have bigger ones this year and Mercedes slightly smaller going off what the aero guy is talking about.

So that's how you compare the different years.

I think big or not should be not issue, coz it depends on the overall aero philosophy. Last year HAAS want to explore max downforce from the side bargeboard. You can see the agressive flaps to create upwash, in a cost of floor sealing capabilities from the side. Even in Ferarri you cant see that. But if you see the RW, they aim to create max DF to make diffuser work harder as well, so speed trap wise they are in bottom. Compared to RB bargeboard, there is no agrresive upwash flaps, so the floor seal is stronger, hence in total they can create more DF in high speed corner in expense of slow corner. The problem in Ferarri now on paper they should faster in slow corner, but merc is tha fastest one. Let see in higher cornering circuit what Ferarri could done, but for me their future is blank one (this one i agree with the secret aerodinamist)

[Maplesoup]

Well there are 2 different areas of the bargeboards really.
There are those that run in front of the side pod and behind the wheel, these being the ones that had to be reduced in height this year.
The second area is around the side of the sidepods these have not been affected by any change if rules but ferrari appear to have bigger ones this year and Mercedes slightly smaller going off what the aero guy is talking about.

So that's how you compare the different years.

I think big or not should be not issue, coz it depends on the overall aero philosophy. Last year HAAS want to explore max downforce from the side bargeboard. You can see the agressive flaps to create upwash, in a cost of floor sealing capabilities from the side. Even in Ferarri you cant see that. But if you see the RW, they aim to create max DF to make diffuser work harder as well, so speed trap wise they are in bottom. Compared to RB bargeboard, there is no agrresive upwash flaps, so the floor seal is stronger, hence in total they can create more DF in high speed corner in expense of slow corner. The problem in Ferarri now on paper they should faster in slow corner, but merc is tha fastest one. Let see in higher cornering circuit what Ferarri could done, but for me their future is blank one (this one i agree with the secret aerodinamist)

Having a big barge boards or small one is a problem. The harder to work the air with the barge boards the more energy is lost from that air. If the air has less energy then it weakens the ground effect from the diffuser.

I would argue that the idea there is a "sealing" of the floor is an incorrect concept, rather the teams are trying to prevent dirty air from affecting the diffuser like the air that comes off the rear tire. By directing it with vortices or conditioning it to make it less dirty and more workable.

[Blackout]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rikterpstra/

[paddyf1]

Pre-season testing week 1 (1) v. Melbourne (2):

1.
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ng-r-1.jpg

2.
https://i.imgur.com/SBdG81K.png

Interesting how red bull didnt open up the back for the hotter temps in Aus.

[dxpetrov]

The proof that bodywork still have some space around that engine...

[Godius]

The general sentiment at the time of pre-season testing was that Honda needed the larger cooling outlet. But in hindsight they were just already testing the in-season cooling package, clever thinking. The only major shift at pre-season testing was when Red Bull realised that with Honda they could run with much more downforce at the rear of the car (without major penalty) compared to the Renault engine.

[Stef]

We should see these openings shrink a bit, then ?