2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

[Capharol]

Top 10 Onboards of Australian GP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiTJoT0 ... e=youtu.be

[NathanOlder]

Then i’d find it quite weird that he went off into T1.

Driving slower and looking after tyres is a time anyone can make a mistake. you dont need to be on the edge to make a mistake

[NathanOlder]

at the time, I didnt think they did, But its clear from the onbaord that Leclerc and Vettel touched in T2 on Lap 1.

[Capharol]

at the time, I didnt think they did, But its clear from the onbaord that Leclerc and Vettel touched in T2 on Lap 1.

yes as posted the video and pic of it yesterday in the Ferrari topic

[Mach]

.... and here we go again for another pretty boring season.

I couldn't agree with you more about Mercedes dominance. Why the rest of the teams are so unprepared is beyond me

No disrespect to Mercedes fans.....I'm certain you're happy with your team winning...rightfully so, but, did you find the Australian Grand Prix interesting as each of the other teams and drivers continue to fail with their execution as they struggle to keep up?

[Capharol]

Pirelli's Pit stops Australian GP

[GPR-A]

No disrespect to Mercedes fans.....

I am yet to come across Mercedes fans on the forum here! I know a number of Hamilton fans here, but not a lot of Mercedes fans. Nobody fights to their death, defending Mercedes. No chest thumping or fist pumping, no cheer leading, no such shenanigans like that you find on Ferrari or Red Bull team threads. McLaren is where all the tears are stored. So it should be safe to assume, there isn't an overwhelming happiness displayed for Mercedes' victory or dominance per se.

Look at some stats.
2019 Ferrari team thread has reached 16 pages.
2019 Mercedes team thread has 18 pages.
2019 Red Bull team thread has already reached 58 pages!
2019 McLaren team thread has already reached 142 pages!!! Mostly disheartened souls there, for a few years now.

2018 Mercedes team thread reached 45 pages.
2018 Ferrari team thread reached 58 pages.
2018 Red Bull team thread reached 67 pages.
2018 McLaren team thread reached 531 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TAG]

No disrespect to Mercedes fans.....

I am yet to come across Mercedes fans on the forum here! I know a number of Hamilton fans here, but not a lot of Mercedes fans. Nobody fights to their death, defending Mercedes. No chest thumping or fist pumping, no cheer leading, no such shenanigans like that you find on Ferrari or Red Bull team threads. McLaren is where all the tears are stored. So it should be safe to assume, there isn't an overwhelming happiness displayed for Mercedes' victory or dominance per se.

Look at some stats.
2019 Ferrari team thread has reached 16 pages.
2019 Mercedes team thread has 18 pages.
2019 Red Bull team thread has already reached 58 pages!
2019 McLaren team thread has already reached 142 pages!!! Mostly disheartened souls there, for a few years now.

2018 Mercedes team thread reached 45 pages.
2018 Ferrari team thread reached 58 pages.
2018 Red Bull team thread reached 67 pages.
2018 McLaren team thread reached 531 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!

Misery loves company.

[GrandAxe]

No disrespect to Mercedes fans.....

I am yet to come across Mercedes fans on the forum here! I know a number of Hamilton fans here, but not a lot of Mercedes fans. Nobody fights to their death, defending Mercedes. No chest thumping or fist pumping, no cheer leading, no such shenanigans like that you find on Ferrari or Red Bull team threads. McLaren is where all the tears are stored. So it should be safe to assume, there isn't an overwhelming happiness displayed for Mercedes' victory or dominance per se.

Look at some stats.
2019 Ferrari team thread has reached 16 pages.
2019 Mercedes team thread has 18 pages.
2019 Red Bull team thread has already reached 58 pages!
2019 McLaren team thread has already reached 142 pages!!! Mostly disheartened souls there, for a few years now.

2018 Mercedes team thread reached 45 pages.
2018 Ferrari team thread reached 58 pages.
2018 Red Bull team thread reached 67 pages.
2018 McLaren team thread reached 531 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the (formerly) guilty here. Not on this site though.
I started curing myself off McLaren after Ron Dennis left and astonishing sloppiness moved in (eg stuff like bungs being left in Jenson Button's radiator - Monaco 2010).

These day's I'm sort of a Merc fan, but its far from a blood thing like it was with McLaren. So, I was quite happy when Bottas won the race and Lewis came second, but there's still some space for other teams.

However, in the McLaren days, it was a do-or-die thing; Mika Hakkinen hiding behind a bush to weep after spinning out in Monza 1999 was like the death of a family member! That pain still lingers a bit today.


Credit dailymail.co.uk

[Schuttelberg]

https://kitasumu.com/wp-content/uploads ... 857962.png
source

Williams still hasn't finished :')

Hey, where's Seb's moustache?

[Phil]

Then i’d find it quite weird that he went off into T1.

Driving slower and looking after tyres is a time anyone can make a mistake. you dont need to be on the edge to make a mistake

Well, you can go on and convince yourself that Leclerc was the quicker driver, but it’s really irrelevant, as on the day it really mattered (Saturday), he wasnt. There really isnt more to talk about. Ferrari made the call and even if they hadnt, i’m not sure if he’d have gotten past Seb if he really wanted to defend his position on this track. We’ll never know for sure either way.

[Wynters]

Drivers do not choose strategy. Period. There's a whole team of boffins whose job is to analyse data and permute strategy.
When your premise is crap, your argument is also crap.

1) Who chose the strategies is entirely irrelevant to my argument. Nice strawman though and good to know this was the most substantive thing you could find to argue about.
2) If this is the hill you want to die on, let's see what I said...

Vettel chose a strategy that, for whatever reason, he and his car were unable to make work. Leclerc chose a different strategy and made it work.

Please explain how my post about one Ferrari employee traversing the race distance in a shorter time than another Ferrari employee is substantially altered by replacing the shorthand of 'Vettel' and 'Leclerc', which I used to clearly refer not only to the relevant drivers but to both their respective cars, engines, various other parts and settings, tyres and the pitstop crew, with 'Inaki Rueda' (and it may have been someone other than Rueda who both developed and selected the strategy, I assume you have proof as to whom played both of those roles)?

Bear in mind that, if swapping those words doesn't substantially change my point, then

your premise is crap, your argument is also crap.

Also, I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. Leclerc would have completed the race distance in a shorter time than Vettel if he'd been allowed to pass (barring a catastrophic anomaly that wasn't revealed during the race). It's horrifying that people are unwilling to accept it and are reduced to pedantry and strawmanning to try and alter reality. It's equally incredible that the people who are unwilling to admit that fact, somehow think it's a criticism of Vettel. If it makes the Vettel-fans feel better, I also think, come race day, Bottas was faster than Hamilton (turns out that Sunday is relevant, rare for Albert Park), Verstappen was faster than Gasly and Stroll was faster than Perez (because they were). I guess that makes me a Hamilton / Gasly / Perez hater too. Anyone think Kubica was slower than Russell? Bet they only think that because they hate Poles, right?

Drivers do not choose strategy. Period.

That's also demonstrably false. Drivers regularly choose when to pit and what tyres to put on in damp conditions. There are also rare occasions when the team leave the choice of strategy to the driver. Mercedes in Abu Dhabi in 2015, for instance.

[GrandAxe]

Drivers do not choose strategy. Period. There's a whole team of boffins whose job is to analyse data and permute strategy.
When your premise is crap, your argument is also crap.

1) Who chose the strategies is entirely irrelevant to my argument. Nice strawman though and good to know this was the most substantive thing you could find to argue about.
2) If this is the hill you want to die on, let's see what I said...

Vettel chose a strategy that, for whatever reason, he and his car were unable to make work. Leclerc chose a different strategy and made it work.

Please explain how my post about one Ferrari employee traversing the race distance in a shorter time than another Ferrari employee is substantially altered by replacing the shorthand of 'Vettel' and 'Leclerc', which I used to clearly refer not only to the relevant drivers but to both their respective cars, engines, various other parts and settings, tyres and the pitstop crew, with 'Inaki Rueda' (and it may have been someone other than Rueda who both developed and selected the strategy, I assume you have proof as to whom played both of those roles)?

Bear in mind that, if swapping those words doesn't substantially change my point, then

your premise is crap, your argument is also crap.

Also, I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. Leclerc would have completed the race distance in a shorter time than Vettel if he'd been allowed to pass (barring a catastrophic anomaly that wasn't revealed during the race). It's horrifying that people are unwilling to accept it and are reduced to pedantry and strawmanning to try and alter reality. It's equally incredible that the people who are unwilling to admit that fact, somehow think it's a criticism of Vettel. If it makes the Vettel-fans feel better, I also think, come race day, Bottas was faster than Hamilton (turns out that Sunday is relevant, rare for Albert Park), Verstappen was faster than Gasly and Stroll was faster than Perez (because they were). I guess that makes me a Hamilton / Gasly / Perez hater too. Anyone think Kubica was slower than Russell? Bet they only think that because they hate Poles, right?

Drivers do not choose strategy. Period.

That's also demonstrably false. Drivers regularly choose when to pit and what tyres to put on in damp conditions. There are also rare occasions when the team leave the choice of strategy to the driver. Mercedes in Abu Dhabi in 2015, for instance.

The simple point is; drivers do not choose strategy. There are teams of analysts, banks of computers and other external resources dedicated just to permute strategy, both track-side and at the teams home bases.

You claimed (without the slightest proof too) that Vettel chose his strategy. That rightly raised corrections and your response that you were just being flippant ... ??? Its easier to back down than make these claims.

Out of a foundation of crap floweth torrents and fountains of more crap. Its a law of nature.

[NathanOlder]

Then i’d find it quite weird that he went off into T1.

Driving slower and looking after tyres is a time anyone can make a mistake. you dont need to be on the edge to make a mistake

Well, you can go on and convince yourself that Leclerc was the quicker driver, but it’s really irrelevant, as on the day it really mattered (Saturday), he wasnt. There really isnt more to talk about. Ferrari made the call and even if they hadnt, i’m not sure if he’d have gotten past Seb if he really wanted to defend his position on this track. We’ll never know for sure either way.

Well there are 0 points given out on Saturday, so you can hardly call that "when it mattered" Phil.
And you say you're not sure he would have passed, but I am saying I am definitely sure he would have passed. Max passed very easy, and Max is probably the 1 person Seb would fight the hardest.
All I'm saying is, Leclerc was slower in the first half, but If he knew he was going to go double the distance to Seb on the same tyres, he would have been taking it easier than Seb. Especially when Seb was in between Lewis and Max. Seb couldn't take it easy even if he wanted to, his pace was dictated by the cars around him. Leclerc on the other hand was able to run the exact pace he wanted, his tyres covered 28 laps in the race, so come the end of the race, his tyres were always going to be fine, he probably has more fuel left to use, so his pace was then faster (despite losing 5 seconds running off the track early on).
The way the race finished, and the team orders that were issued, reminds me of the 1992 Monaco GP, in that, that day the fastest car finished behind a slower car. Like Leclerc and Vettel on Sunday. Now I dont need telling Mansell was faster than Senna all weekend, and it was a mistake that Mansell ended up behind Senna, and there were no team orders involved. I am just using it as an example that fasters cars do finish behind slower cars.

[etusch]