Parc Fermé

[NL_Fer]

Fuel may be added to the cars, tyres changed and brakes bled. Minor front wing adjustments are also allowed, but little else. These controls mean that teams cannot make significant alterations to the set-up of a car between qualifying and the race.

Parc Fermé basicly means you drive the race, with the same setup from qualifing. I understand it is better for the crew and smaller teams to prevent working all night. But for an exciting race, wouldn’t a bigger speed differance between Q and Race be more exciting to see?

[marmer]

No

The cars wouldn't set up too different to anyway generally a set up is quick or slow regardless of how much your pushing most of the time difference between sessions is how much the engine and and driver are pushing.

Allowing teams to alter setup would make wet racing worse as teams would be able to adjust car significantly from a dry qualification or the other way around.

[Cuky]

Allowing teams to alter setup would make wet racing worse as teams would be able to adjust car significantly from a dry qualification or the other way around.

You mean we would actually see racing instead of lapping around behind SC or waiting under red flag for rain to ease? As far as my memory serves me problems with racing in wet started from when Parc Ferme rules were implemented and they couldn't setup cars for wet R if Q was in dry. Setup was a compromise, leaning more toward dry, and driving in rain became harder than it should be.

[strad]

yep

[Jolle]

depending on the circuit, most teams set their car up for qualifying and then nurture that setup trough he race. If a rebuild of the car overnight (with a shakedown practice on Sunday morning) racing would improve.
The whole aero is build for running in clean air, any small turbulence screws it up. A race setup would have less drag, a bit less downforce for better following and overtaking (And less sensitive).

Same would go for the suspension setup. For qualification a extreme setting, where they have to race these days. If rules would allow they could have a second setup were they can push longer without overheating the tires.

It would also be fun to see bigger differences between teams for Q and race. Bit like the first turbo years, where TAG won most of the races in 84/85 but rarely were on pole.

[zac510]

It would be 'fun' but I disagree it would improve the racing. All teams will change their cars into race setup and they'll all change them in similar ways which would maintain the status quo.

One other thing about the current Parc Ferme is that it forces the teams to make a compromise between Q and Race setup, and during the era of allowing DRS over the whole lap in qualifying was a really good example of that. The optimum wing flap for Q was different to that for the race and they had to choose. Unfortunately the FIA weakened the DRS rules.
No refuelling was also good for this - the car setup difference between full 160kg of fuel and quali/1 lap fuel was a balancing act and led to compromises in the car design and setup.

I would prefer for the optimum race setup and optimum qualifying setup to have an even larger difference, and retain the Parc Ferme rules so that the teams have to choose between race and qualifying speed. Then again, they'll probably all just choose one or the other end of the spectrum depending upon whether you can overtake at that track

[SiLo]

FIA actually just made a regulation change to Parc Ferme as there was a loophole that teams could use regarding the front wing. You could move a gurney flap around on the front wing as it just counts as not replacing a part, so you could move it further inboard or outboard to effect setup for a race.

[Pingguest]

I have disliking the post-qualifying parc ferme since it's introduction. Especially when in-race refueling was still allowed, it made qualifying effectively the first lap of the race. Proper qualifying no longer exists.

From an economic point of view, the ban on changing cars or even parts is quite understandable. But why are drivers not allowed to change the car's setup? Changing wing angle between qualifying and race does not cost any penny.

And yes, abolishing or even relaxing this piece of legislation would improve the racing, as qualifying pace and race pace will differ more than currently is the case.

[NL_Fer]

It would be 'fun' but I disagree it would improve the racing. All teams will change their cars into race setup and they'll all change them in similar ways which would maintain the status quo.

One other thing about the current Parc Ferme is that it forces the teams to make a compromise between Q and Race setup, and during the era of allowing DRS over the whole lap in qualifying was a really good example of that. The optimum wing flap for Q was different to that for the race and they had to choose. Unfortunately the FIA weakened the DRS rules.
No refuelling was also good for this - the car setup difference between full 160kg of fuel and quali/1 lap fuel was a balancing act and led to compromises in the car design and setup.

I would prefer for the optimum race setup and optimum qualifying setup to have an even larger difference, and retain the Parc Ferme rules so that the teams have to choose between race and qualifying speed. Then again, they'll probably all just choose one or the other end of the spectrum depending upon whether you can overtake at that track

Nice perspective, thanks.

So it could be the case, that a ban of parce ferme would only lessen the difference between Q and Race.

[SiLo]

I have disliking the post-qualifying parc ferme since it's introduction. Especially when in-race refueling was still allowed, it made qualifying effectively the first lap of the race. Proper qualifying no longer exists.

From an economic point of view, the ban on changing cars or even parts is quite understandable. But why are drivers not allowed to change the car's setup? Changing wing angle between qualifying and race does not cost any penny.

And yes, abolishing or even relaxing this piece of legislation would improve the racing, as qualifying pace and race pace will differ more than currently is the case.

It's a race weekend, therefore a balance needs to be struck between qualifying and race pace. I like that teams have to make a decision on that rather than just being fast in both. Strategy is a key part of the sport, and letting teams make setup changes like that would remove some of it.

[Jolle]

I have disliking the post-qualifying parc ferme since it's introduction. Especially when in-race refueling was still allowed, it made qualifying effectively the first lap of the race. Proper qualifying no longer exists.

From an economic point of view, the ban on changing cars or even parts is quite understandable. But why are drivers not allowed to change the car's setup? Changing wing angle between qualifying and race does not cost any penny.

And yes, abolishing or even relaxing this piece of legislation would improve the racing, as qualifying pace and race pace will differ more than currently is the case.

It's a race weekend, therefore a balance needs to be struck between qualifying and race pace. I like that teams have to make a decision on that rather than just being fast in both. Strategy is a key part of the sport, and letting teams make setup changes like that would remove some of it.

Depends a lot of the circuit. Monaco is all qualifying speed while Monza is more race.

[Pingguest]

I have disliking the post-qualifying parc ferme since it's introduction. Especially when in-race refueling was still allowed, it made qualifying effectively the first lap of the race. Proper qualifying no longer exists.

From an economic point of view, the ban on changing cars or even parts is quite understandable. But why are drivers not allowed to change the car's setup? Changing wing angle between qualifying and race does not cost any penny.

And yes, abolishing or even relaxing this piece of legislation would improve the racing, as qualifying pace and race pace will differ more than currently is the case.

It's a race weekend, therefore a balance needs to be struck between qualifying and race pace. I like that teams have to make a decision on that rather than just being fast in both. Strategy is a key part of the sport, and letting teams make setup changes like that would remove some of it.

Strategy used to be a part of the race only and qualifying was only about driving flat-out. If race strategy really have to play a role in qualifying, then why are teams still allowed to make minor changes to the front wing, to refuel and - in case their drivers did not make it to the third part of qualifying - change tire compound?

Actually, why not going a step further in terms of strategy being a key part? Let teams try to find one perfect balance for the entire season by 'freezing' the car prior the season! Ban any alteration to the car regardless how minor they are.


In fact, this is already the case for the gear ratios.

[zac510]

Actually, why not going a step further in terms of strategy being a key part? Let teams try to find one perfect balance for the entire season by 'freezing' the car prior the season! Ban any alteration to the car regardless how minor they are.


In fact, this is already the case for the gear ratios.

Great idea! A lot of the rose-coloured glasses crew hark back to the times when the cars were different; when one car was better on a fast track and another car was better on a twisty track, for example.

With modern cars we're never going to get V6 vs V12 again, but we can achieve a similar thing by making it harder for the engineers to design their cars as a compromise between qualifying, race and the type of tracks in the championship.

[Pingguest]

Actually, why not going a step further in terms of strategy being a key part? Let teams try to find one perfect balance for the entire season by 'freezing' the car prior the season! Ban any alteration to the car regardless how minor they are.


In fact, this is already the case for the gear ratios.

Great idea! A lot of the rose-coloured glasses crew hark back to the times when the cars were different; when one car was better on a fast track and another car was better on a twisty track, for example.

With modern cars we're never going to get V6 vs V12 again, but we can achieve a similar thing by making it harder for the engineers to design their cars as a compromise between qualifying, race and the type of tracks in the championship.

Well, it may leave teams and their drivers in a hopeless situation in case of even the slightest flaw in either design or setup. It might also pose a danger when a Grand Prix is held at a new and unknown venue. If design and setup strategy being a key part is taken to the fullest, no change should be allowed during the race either. Hence, tire changes should be banned as well. But that is just asking for a repeat of the 2005 United States Grand Prix.

[Jolle]

Actually, why not going a step further in terms of strategy being a key part? Let teams try to find one perfect balance for the entire season by 'freezing' the car prior the season! Ban any alteration to the car regardless how minor they are.


In fact, this is already the case for the gear ratios.

Great idea! A lot of the rose-coloured glasses crew hark back to the times when the cars were different; when one car was better on a fast track and another car was better on a twisty track, for example.

With modern cars we're never going to get V6 vs V12 again, but we can achieve a similar thing by making it harder for the engineers to design their cars as a compromise between qualifying, race and the type of tracks in the championship.

The big teams will probably calculate and simulate so much that they are pretty much in balance. We can already see this with the larger setup choices they make for a whole season. Between Monza and Monaco most of the setup like wheel base or weight distribution is the same.

It does open up that smaller teams build a car for just one race and try their best on the other tracks. A car specifically designed for Monaco is much faster then the average design the teams use now.

I suspect by the way that Williams tried this for Silverstone the last couple of seasons.