2021 Engine thread

[mzso]

Exhaust recover would work for a series hybrid - ie where the wheels are driven electrically and the ICE charges the battery/provides power to the motors.

They would not need the MGUH, however.

Yes. It would work best in a setup like that, at constant RPM.

Yeah, that would sound exciting. Constant RPM vacuumcleaner

Noise fetishism is remarkably stupid. Even more so with a city car.

[Big Tea]

You can watch turtles race.

Indeed.

https://youtu.be/arG-zBwoemQ

I don't think auto racing will fare well in the coming years. Electrification and automation loom and new frontiers for competition are on the horizon. RIP F1.

Would the Ferrari turtle have (a) Shell sponsor?

[roon]

Yes. It would work best in a setup like that, at constant RPM.

Yeah, that would sound exciting. Constant RPM vacuumcleaner

Noise fetishism is remarkably stupid. Even more so with a city car.

Also considering some (most?) of the high performance vehicles ever created were basically large 'vacuum cleaners' with wings.

[Holm86]

Just hope they will change the bank angle to 120° because a 90° odd firing V6 will never sound great.
At the same time they should allow a hot vee configuration.

Fat chance of that. It would mean a total redesign of the ICE and it would be wider than anyone want.

(Besides the cosworth DFV was a 90°and it had an awesome sound.)

Then at least allow for a 30° crank throw separation. The current engine formation will never sound pleasing.
For me it's not the volume that is the problem, its the frequency of these engines.

[mzso]

It looks like 2021 engine rules will be delayed. The bosses are looking for new engine entries like Aston Martin, Cosworth, Porsche. In effect, 2 years is not enough to lure in new prospects, hence the delay.

I'd say they're cancelled. Brawn claimed that none of the prospective new suppliers was really serious and they didn't want to alienate the present ones. And that four is pretty healthy anyway. (In the Sky pre-qualifying interview)
All I expect to see is the MGU-K power increase which was suggested by the gearbox tender. Maybe more storage, and KERS like deployment of K.
No idea how they'll make them "noisier". I'm hoping it won't be something ridiculous as an acoustic horn.
And I don't think they can do much else with the exhaust while they remain on one turbo and exhaust. And increasing fuel flow slightly would not be noticeable.

[JordanMugen]

Yes. It would work best in a setup like that, at constant RPM.

Yeah, that would sound exciting. Constant RPM vacuumcleaner

Noise fetishism is remarkably stupid. Even more so with a city car.

I have to disagree. Even driving to the shops should be fun IMO...

With the plain dumb 17% efficient NA engines they were anything but.

lol

I take it that mzso won't be using a Renault Clio RS 200 (the NA version) or Civic Type R as their city runabout any time soon, but other people do and they enjoy it -- take a load of shopping with ease, and they can double duty as a fun hillclimb/track day car -- just great.

Thankfully (or shamefully?) in Australia, fuel excise is very cheap and CO2 output based road tax doesn't even exist; so without those behaviour modifying regulations, many people gleefully drive inefficient vehicles (6L General Motors sedans are very common in Australia, whereas in France it's 6200cc & 297 g CO2/km would see a $5000+ p/a provincial road tax levied IIRC)...

I recall a crowd rushing to the fence and saying "now that was something special" when a Ferrari FXX made an unexpected appearance at a historic Motorsport festival... Were they commenting on the looks or the driving? I doubt it, might have had something to do with the V12 wail.

[mzso]

I have to disagree. Even driving to the shops should be fun IMO...

Should be? I don't think so, it's just work. But you can have fun in an EV if you want.

Thankfully (or shamefully?) in Australia, fuel excise is very cheap and CO2 output based road tax doesn't even exist; so without those behaviour modifying regulations, many people gleefully drive inefficient vehicles

Enjoy it while you can then. Odds are in a few years even your country will fall in line and starts to tax fuel heavily and promote EVs.

when a Ferrari FXX made an unexpected appearance at a historic Motorsport festival... Were they commenting on the looks or the driving? I doubt it, might have had something to do with the V12 wail.

Salivating over supercars is nothing new.

[JordanMugen]

Enjoy it while you can then.

Definitely -- I recently downgraded from a 9 year old vehicle to a less refined & more analog 17 year old one so I could cram in as much motoring fun while it's still possible!

[I guess a year 2000 car is already wildly luxurious compared to a Model T! Perhaps too much so?]

[mzso]

Enjoy it while you can then.

Definitely -- I recently downgraded from a 9 year old vehicle to a less refined & more analog 17 year old one so I could cram in as much motoring fun while it's still possible!

[I guess a year 2000 car is already wildly luxurious compared to a Model T! Perhaps too much so?]

Not surprising that Australia is one of the worst per capita polluters, behind only Oil producing countries like Saud-Arabia, and Canada.
(Also because of obscene amounts of coal power)

[Tommy Cookers]

F1 also wants to be an innovator and a forrerunner of technology as it was in the past. With the plain dumb 17% efficient NA engines they were anything but....

well I thought Mercedes told us 29% efficiency and Ferrari told us 32%
ok this was presumably not for the push-to-pass super rich mixture giving more consistent combustion at super-high rpm
just normal 15% ? rich for cruise-to-victory rpm running necessary for the mandated engine life

running lean would presumably give another 3% and power recovery turbines another 3% and Atkinson cycle another 3%

[NL_Fer]

It looks like 2021 engine rules will be delayed. The bosses are looking for new engine entries like Aston Martin, Cosworth, Porsche. In effect, 2 years is not enough to lure in new prospects, hence the delay.

I'd say they're cancelled. Brawn claimed that none of the prospective new suppliers was really serious and they didn't want to alienate the present ones. And that four is pretty healthy anyway. (In the Sky pre-qualifying interview)
All I expect to see is the MGU-K power increase which was suggested by the gearbox tender. Maybe more storage, and KERS like deployment of K.
No idea how they'll make them "noisier". I'm hoping it won't be something ridiculous as an acoustic horn.
And I don't think they can do much else with the exhaust while they remain on one turbo and exhaust. And increasing fuel flow slightly would not be noticeable.

They can make them noiser, by increasing the rpm, at which the maximum fuel flow is allowed. So fuel flow is very limited at low rpm is is increased with increasing rpm. Maximum fuel flow should be from 15000rpm at least.

Also they can limit the amount of exhaust recovery, by limiting or prescribing a standard MGU-H or just put a KW limit on it.

[mzso]

well I thought Mercedes told us 29% efficiency and Ferrari told us 32%

I think I got the value from a Mercedes video that was about them going past 50% with the hybrids. But I can't find it now.

[mzso]

They can make them noiser, by increasing the rpm, at which the maximum fuel flow is allowed. So fuel flow is very limited at low rpm is is increased with increasing rpm.

Wouldn't that just increase the pitch of the noise?

Maximum fuel flow should be from 15000rpm at least.

15k is the maximum allowed now, I don't think they will increase that.
But they already go up to around 12500RPM (Judging by Leclerc's pole lap) so I don't think a 2k RPM difference will make a huge difference.

[NL_Fer]

Maximum fuel flow at 15000 will have a shift/redline of 17000-18000rpm

[Singabule]

Maximum fuel flow at 14K and even firing, should be enough to improve the sound overall