Bad Team Decisions and Excuses

[Mach]

Just a fun thread to point out the irony and team double talk

Double stacking Hamilton and Bottas pit stop at Chinese Grand Prix was Toto Wolff's idea....well, who else can make that call at Mercedes?

[marmer]

Not over a race weekend but

Ron Dennis decision to switch to honda is probably the biggest face palm in recent years McLaren went right to the back of the grid while staying a Merc customer would have probably got them 4th in the championship for there time with honda.
Then dropped honda just as they catch up everyone else switch to Renault who might now be the worst this season

As far as bad choices go I can't think of many worse than this

[Andres125sx]

RBR saying Verstappen-Ricciardo accident responsibility was 50-50. IMHO that was a SCANDAL, and this motivated Ricciardo departure. Now they surely are regretting with Gasly performing so poorly, but they got what they deserve, allowing one of your drivers crashing with his team mate, not punishing him, and even saying publicly it was a 50-50 responsibility is ignoring a red line

[Andres125sx]

Not over a race weekend but

Ron Dennis decision to switch to honda is probably the biggest face palm in recent years McLaren went right to the back of the grid while staying a Merc customer would have probably got them 4th in the championship for there time with honda.
Then dropped honda just as they catch up everyone else switch to Renault who might now be the worst this season

As far as bad choices go I can't think of many worse than this

Not the thread to dicuss this, but saying Renault is the worst now is absurd. Do you think RBR is performing better this season with Honda than they did with Renault? No way, they´ve undoubtadely make one or two steps back, now they´re closer to Renault and McLaren when past season they were closer to Mercedes and Ferrari

And going to Honda is not a bad decision IMHO, it was a VERY risky one, but a team like McLaren who´s target are both titles can´t accept a customer engine wich will never allow him to win. They had no choice, similar to Alonso, they knew it was very risky but he was sure Ferrari would not allow him to win the title, so he made a risky move to have some chance. It didn´t work, but it was a brave decision, same as McLaren with Honda.

[marmer]

Not over a race weekend but

Ron Dennis decision to switch to honda is probably the biggest face palm in recent years McLaren went right to the back of the grid while staying a Merc customer would have probably got them 4th in the championship for there time with honda.
Then dropped honda just as they catch up everyone else switch to Renault who might now be the worst this season

As far as bad choices go I can't think of many worse than this

Not the thread to dicuss this, but saying Renault is the worst now is absurd. Do you think RBR is performing better this season with Honda than they did with Renault? No way, they´ve undoubtadely make one or two steps back, now they´re closer to Renault and McLaren when past season they were closer to Mercedes and Ferrari

And going to Honda is not a bad decision IMHO, it was a VERY risky one, but a team like McLaren who´s target are both titles can´t accept a customer engine wich will never allow him to win. They had no choice, similar to Alonso, they knew it was very risky but he was sure Ferrari would not allow him to win the title, so he made a risky move to have some chance. It didn´t work, but it was a brave decision, same as McLaren with Honda.

Renault are worse this year they have had at least one power unit fault per race they might have slightly more power but it's not like it's getting them anywhere them or McLaren are still behind red bull.

And yes honda was a very bad decision you can't make a serious case the McLaren made anything other than a cock up with it. Yes I understand they had to take a risk but looking back if they had just stayed with mercedes until honda was more ready they would have achieved much more.

[Andres125sx]

Maybe, but McLaren can force any other team to sign in with Honda and take the damage of firsts seasons with a new manufacturer, the only way to do it was assuming that damage theirselves with the hope after a short period they would be competitive.

Maybe Renault is worst this season, but that means nothing about Honda perfomance. RBR is further away from Mercedes and Ferrari this season than they were last year with the french PU. I think it´s pretty obvious, isn´t it?

[Just_a_fan]

Not the thread to dicuss this

And then does.

[bill shoe]

Bad Team Decision: Haas ran last year's Italian Grand Prix with a floor that had previously been declared illegal by the FIA in written notice to all teams. Grosjean finished 6th for Haas, but another team protested and the Haas was promptly disqualified. Excuse: It was too difficult to remove the few little fins and make the floor legal.

[nokivasara]

The bad descision regarding Mclaren and Honda was when Mclaren decided to end it, I said that when it happened and haven't changed my mind since. It was by far the worst team decision in modern time that I can think of.
Another bad decision was when Nelson was told to crash to help Alonso. Or when Schumi very conveniently stopped at Monaco, but I don't think the team had anything to do with that.

[Phil]

Maybe, but McLaren can force any other team to sign in with Honda and take the damage of firsts seasons with a new manufacturer, the only way to do it was assuming that damage theirselves with the hope after a short period they would be competitive.

Maybe Renault is worst this season, but that means nothing about Honda perfomance. RBR is further away from Mercedes and Ferrari this season than they were last year with the french PU. I think it´s pretty obvious, isn´t it?

Going strictly by numbers, apparently not, given Verstappen is only 2nd to both Mercedes and ahead of both Ferraris. Given the reliability with Renault, i’m doubtful they could have achieved that. Even so, RedBull are quite vocal about carrying the ‘blame’ for their current performance, so i expect large improvements to the car that will bring them closer into contention as the season progresses. Having Gasly driving that 2nd RedBull will hurt them in the WCC standings though. I wouldnt be surprised to see him replaced sooner than later if he continues to finish behind the Torro Rossos in the race.

[DiogoBrand]

Even so, RedBull are quite vocal about carrying the ‘blame’ for their current performance.

That's all PR talk.
The same way McLaren's Poor performances were all Honda's fault, Red Bull's poor performances were all Renault's Fault, now the Honda PU is perfect for Red Bull and the problem is the car, and the Renault PU is perfect for McLaren, the problem is the car. They both come from turbulent PU supplier relationships, and they both know that if they don't work well with the current manufacturers that's them screwed for as long as the current PU regulations last. So they're trying to be good boys and work as hard as they can to make things work.

[Phil]

Or it is true, there are major problems to be found with the chassis and aero, not unlike Ferrari who also got a few things wrong as evidence by their not very consistent performance so far. Who are you to say it isnt exactly so?

[Andres125sx]

Maybe, but McLaren can force any other team to sign in with Honda and take the damage of firsts seasons with a new manufacturer, the only way to do it was assuming that damage theirselves with the hope after a short period they would be competitive.

Maybe Renault is worst this season, but that means nothing about Honda perfomance. RBR is further away from Mercedes and Ferrari this season than they were last year with the french PU. I think it´s pretty obvious, isn´t it?

Going strictly by numbers, apparently not

Yeah, apparently not, but we all know going strictly by numbers the real picture gets distorted

[Andres125sx]

The bad descision regarding Mclaren and Honda was when Mclaren decided to end it, I said that when it happened and haven't changed my mind since.

Agree. What marmer said about letting some other team to do the hard work until the PU is in good shape (and I agree but replied saying no other team was willing to do so), is what finally McLaren have done for RBR, assume the step back in first seasons, and when the PU start performing decently, let your competitors enjoy the fruit...

[subcritical71]

The bad descision regarding Mclaren and Honda was when Mclaren decided to end it, I said that when it happened and haven't changed my mind since.

Agree. What marmer said about letting some other team to do the hard work until the PU is in good shape (and I agree but replied saying no other team was willing to do so), is what finally McLaren have done for RBR, assume the step back in first seasons, and when the PU start performing decently, let your competitors enjoy the fruit...

At the time of the McLaren switch the engine manufacturers were not required to provide equal engines. Now that they are I think McLaren would have had an easier time getting to their goals with a Merc vs. Honda.