2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Ground Effect]

So far, it seems McLaren is being one of the more vocally reserved of the midfield teams regarding Barcelona updates. Renault, Racing Point and to a lesser extent, Haas all sound bullish about their upgrades. Hope we can spring a surprise and take a step forward to consolidate 4th best.

[PhillipM]

Heard anything yet on upgrades?

Only that there's nothing expected from the new Renault dyno for engine upgrades until Canada, I know a few were saying there'd be a big upgrade here but apparently not.

[mwillems]

The budget is a bit small for Mclarens needs right now without the burden of building engines. They would need to top that up and then still find another $100m a year (I just plucked that number but it wouldn't surprise me).

If Mclaren can get back to winning ways, increase sponsorships and revenue whilst growing the automotive business substantially then and only then can they afford to go solo like Mercedes or Ferrari. However even then it is a struggle. The profits on a luxury car are not amazing. Ferrari actually a lot of profit from its merchandising, with the Ferrari F1 team receiving substantial sums as a result. So now Mclaren would have to sell even more cars to compete with Ferraris power, except that dilutes the value of their own brand which is already much less desirable in the world than Ferrari and is key to the success of a luxury sports car maker.

Then add in the financial firepower of the Fiat group behind Ferrari, and understand that Mclaren are light years away from ever being in that category. Their best hopes of being that company is to be bought out by a global automotive/iPhone(!) giant who are prepared to make a big cash injection to make them the next Ferrari. And force them to design cars that are sexy first, not where function allows. There is a reason people started to wet themselves when the talk of Apple buying Mclaren started to surface.

[RonDennis]

Heard anything yet on upgrades?

Only that there's nothing expected from the new Renault dyno for engine upgrades until Canada, I know a few were saying there'd be a big upgrade here but apparently not.

The update for Spain is only aimed at reliability, which removes the limitations they had in Baku.

The budget is a bit small for Mclarens needs right now without the burden of building engines. They would need to top that up and then still find another $100m a year (I just plucked that number but it wouldn't surprise me).

If Mclaren can get back to winning ways, increase sponsorships and revenue whilst growing the automotive business substantially then and only then can they afford to go solo like Mercedes or Ferrari. However even then it is a struggle. The profits on a luxury car are not amazing. Ferrari actually a lot of profit from its merchandising, with the Ferrari F1 team receiving substantial sums as a result. So now Mclaren would have to sell even more cars to compete with Ferraris power, except that dilutes the value of their own brand which is already much less desirable in the world than Ferrari and is key to the success of a luxury sports car maker.

Then add in the financial firepower of the Fiat group behind Ferrari, and understand that Mclaren are light years away from ever being in that category. Their best hopes of being that company is to be bought out by a global automotive/iPhone(!) giant who are prepared to make a big cash injection to make them the next Ferrari. And force them to design cars that are sexy first, not where function allows. There is a reason people started to wet themselves when the talk of Apple buying Mclaren started to surface.

I dont' know if you've seen the numbers, but their automative business is doing great.

[Ground Effect]

Heard anything yet on upgrades?

Only that there's nothing expected from the new Renault dyno for engine upgrades until Canada, I know a few were saying there'd be a big upgrade here but apparently not.

The update for Spain is only aimed at reliability, which removes the limitations they had in Baku.

The budget is a bit small for Mclarens needs right now without the burden of building engines. They would need to top that up and then still find another $100m a year (I just plucked that number but it wouldn't surprise me).

If Mclaren can get back to winning ways, increase sponsorships and revenue whilst growing the automotive business substantially then and only then can they afford to go solo like Mercedes or Ferrari. However even then it is a struggle. The profits on a luxury car are not amazing. Ferrari actually a lot of profit from its merchandising, with the Ferrari F1 team receiving substantial sums as a result. So now Mclaren would have to sell even more cars to compete with Ferraris power, except that dilutes the value of their own brand which is already much less desirable in the world than Ferrari and is key to the success of a luxury sports car maker.

Then add in the financial firepower of the Fiat group behind Ferrari, and understand that Mclaren are light years away from ever being in that category. Their best hopes of being that company is to be bought out by a global automotive/iPhone(!) giant who are prepared to make a big cash injection to make them the next Ferrari. And force them to design cars that are sexy first, not where function allows. There is a reason people started to wet themselves when the talk of Apple buying Mclaren started to surface.

I dont' know if you've seen the numbers, but their automative business is doing great.

Yes, Cyril said it's pretty much identical to the scope of reliability upgrades Honda introduced, which will also allow the engine to run the higher modes longer. But maybe they've decided against bringing to Barcelona, because of the reduced power requirements when compared to Baku. After Barcelona is monaco, with even less emphasis on power, so maybe they'll hold out till Canada and bring reliability and power upgrades at the same time. That is of course, if they feel the current state of the PU can handle 2 more races.

[mwillems]

Heard anything yet on upgrades?

Only that there's nothing expected from the new Renault dyno for engine upgrades until Canada, I know a few were saying there'd be a big upgrade here but apparently not.

The update for Spain is only aimed at reliability, which removes the limitations they had in Baku.

The budget is a bit small for Mclarens needs right now without the burden of building engines. They would need to top that up and then still find another $100m a year (I just plucked that number but it wouldn't surprise me).

If Mclaren can get back to winning ways, increase sponsorships and revenue whilst growing the automotive business substantially then and only then can they afford to go solo like Mercedes or Ferrari. However even then it is a struggle. The profits on a luxury car are not amazing. Ferrari actually a lot of profit from its merchandising, with the Ferrari F1 team receiving substantial sums as a result. So now Mclaren would have to sell even more cars to compete with Ferraris power, except that dilutes the value of their own brand which is already much less desirable in the world than Ferrari and is key to the success of a luxury sports car maker.

Then add in the financial firepower of the Fiat group behind Ferrari, and understand that Mclaren are light years away from ever being in that category. Their best hopes of being that company is to be bought out by a global automotive/iPhone(!) giant who are prepared to make a big cash injection to make them the next Ferrari. And force them to design cars that are sexy first, not where function allows. There is a reason people started to wet themselves when the talk of Apple buying Mclaren started to surface.

I dont' know if you've seen the numbers, but their automative business is doing great.

But nowhere near being good enough to be an engine supplier. It bodes well for the future but that revenue is still small fry when it comes to funding f1 car and engine development.

Ferraris budget in 2016 was half a billion. Nearly half the Mac groups revenue.

[Mansell89]

I’m pleased that McLaren are talking very calmly and sensibly with regards to Barcelona. In recent years, there’s always been huge hype especially with it being Alonsos home GP. Hopefully they continue to improve the car further and stay on the right development directions.

It looks as if some lessons in humility have very much been learnt, and that is good news.

[NiyolHuayra]

Would love to see that title sponsor on the car soon. Maybe next year if we finish strong this year, and if Indy goes well.

[RonDennis]

Only that there's nothing expected from the new Renault dyno for engine upgrades until Canada, I know a few were saying there'd be a big upgrade here but apparently not.

The update for Spain is only aimed at reliability, which removes the limitations they had in Baku.

The budget is a bit small for Mclarens needs right now without the burden of building engines. They would need to top that up and then still find another $100m a year (I just plucked that number but it wouldn't surprise me).

If Mclaren can get back to winning ways, increase sponsorships and revenue whilst growing the automotive business substantially then and only then can they afford to go solo like Mercedes or Ferrari. However even then it is a struggle. The profits on a luxury car are not amazing. Ferrari actually a lot of profit from its merchandising, with the Ferrari F1 team receiving substantial sums as a result. So now Mclaren would have to sell even more cars to compete with Ferraris power, except that dilutes the value of their own brand which is already much less desirable in the world than Ferrari and is key to the success of a luxury sports car maker.

Then add in the financial firepower of the Fiat group behind Ferrari, and understand that Mclaren are light years away from ever being in that category. Their best hopes of being that company is to be bought out by a global automotive/iPhone(!) giant who are prepared to make a big cash injection to make them the next Ferrari. And force them to design cars that are sexy first, not where function allows. There is a reason people started to wet themselves when the talk of Apple buying Mclaren started to surface.

I dont' know if you've seen the numbers, but their automative business is doing great.

But nowhere near being good enough to be an engine supplier. It bodes well for the future but that revenue is still small fry when it comes to funding f1 car and engine development.

Ferraris budget in 2016 was half a billion. Nearly half the Mac groups revenue.

These things takes time and I’m sure they aren’t interested building their own F1 engine with the current rules. Mclaren simply needs new rules to limit spending.

[M840TR]

Let's see how things go for 2021, McLaren Automotive is growing so if costs go down they could develop their own engines. Or maybe a new works deal like the one they had with Honda. Until then is heads down and fight for 4th or maybe even 3rd next year.

It might just be possible now with Seidl onboard given his experience. If they get a title sponsor and the automotive business hits 2021 targets then its definitely possible. We all know Renault isn't a prosperous long-term prospect.

[RonDennis]

Let's see how things go for 2021, McLaren Automotive is growing so if costs go down they could develop their own engines. Or maybe a new works deal like the one they had with Honda. Until then is heads down and fight for 4th or maybe even 3rd next year.

It might just be possible now with Seidl onboard given his experience. If they get a title sponsor and the automotive business hits 2021 targets then its definitely possible. We all know Renault isn't a prosperous long-term prospect.

Do you even know how much it's cost to develop these kind of PU's, it's not definitely possible even with with a title sponsor. It also makes no sense to start developing your own engine this late in the cycle. McLaren won't develop their own F1 engine with these set of rules.

[diffuser]

Let's see how things go for 2021, McLaren Automotive is growing so if costs go down they could develop their own engines. Or maybe a new works deal like the one they had with Honda. Until then is heads down and fight for 4th or maybe even 3rd next year.

It might just be possible now with Seidl onboard given his experience. If they get a title sponsor and the automotive business hits 2021 targets then its definitely possible. We all know Renault isn't a prosperous long-term prospect.

What we know now is that there isn't any rush to implement new PU regs. Several people have come out and said it would take 3 -5 years from the day they decided what those new regs are to put them into effect. So really as we stand now, it would be 2023 at the earliest and 2025 more likely.

With Renault supplying just 1 team aside from itself, it would take a MAJOR effort to get the FIA to allow a change in suppliers. Assuming you could find a supplier willing to supply us.

The reality is there isn't any other option for the foreseeable future.

[M840TR]

Let's see how things go for 2021, McLaren Automotive is growing so if costs go down they could develop their own engines. Or maybe a new works deal like the one they had with Honda. Until then is heads down and fight for 4th or maybe even 3rd next year.

It might just be possible now with Seidl onboard given his experience. If they get a title sponsor and the automotive business hits 2021 targets then its definitely possible. We all know Renault isn't a prosperous long-term prospect.

What we know now is that there isn't any rush to implement new PU regs. Several people have come out and said it would take 3 -5 years from the day they decided what those new regs are to put them into effect. So really as we stand now, it would be 2023 at the earliest and 2025 more likely.

With Renault supplying just 1 team aside from itself, it would take a MAJOR effort to get the FIA to allow a change in suppliers. Assuming you could find a supplier willing to supply us.

The reality is there isn't any other option for the foreseeable future.

Yes, that was my implication as well. If they did start their own engine dept it would take at least 2-3 years to finish the factory & hiring and maybe another 5 years to get up to speed. So of course it's a long-term project but given the Mclaren Group's expansion I sort of see it as inevitable.

[Ground Effect]

I read somewhere, I think it was Joe Saward's blog, where he speculated that if things continue to go downhill at Williams, the engine could go to McLaren. He said it's not a very good look for the brand to have their engine propping up the field. I feel he was just giving his opinion for what could logically happen, but you never know.

[charliesmithhd]

I read somewhere, I think it was Joe Saward's blog, where he speculated that if things continue to go downhill at Williams, the engine could go to McLaren. He said it's not a very good look for the brand to have their engine propping up the field. I feel he was just giving his opinion for what could logically happen, but you never know.

Would be interesting to see, do mclaren have a Renault contract until 2020?