Scuderia Ferrari SF90

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Vettel lost 0.3s to himself last year in the third sector. IMO it indicates there is some compromise in the car for whatever reason.

CriXus
CriXus
95
Joined: 01 Feb 2014, 19:09

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Formula 1: The secret aerodynamicist reveals design concepts

Where might Ferrari go wrong?

Looking at the performance of cars from testing - always a fool's errand but bear with me - you might conclude that the Ferrari-style front wing is doing the better job. The Ferrari appears the quickest car at the moment.

However, because of the need to back out the ends of the wing so much, it is always going to struggle to match the Mercedes style for absolute load.

Remember how we need to have a good balance of front and rear downforce? Well, as the teams develop through the season, putting on more and more downforce at the back of the car, Ferrari might struggle to balance it out at the front. If so, that would give them a car hamstrung with understeer which just won't turn into the corners.

On the Ferrari, there are already clues that they might be trying to compensate elsewhere for a lack of downforce generated from the front wing.

The area beside the driver, at the front of the sidepods, around what we call in F1 the 'barge boards', can produce a lot of downforce. The barge boards are the curved pieces that jut out from the main body of the car, and which direct the airflow in ways the designers want it to go.

The key with this, though, is that you want to keep as much energy in the air as possible, so as it travels down the car you can use that energy in the diffuser, at the back of the car.

Air from the bargeboard area flows under the floor beneath the driver before feeding straight into the diffuser. The faster you can get the air to flow through the diffuser, the lower the pressure under the car and the more downforce it creates, sucking the car on to the track. But lots of manipulation in this area carries the risk of losing energy from the air.

Mercedes have reduced the size of their bargeboards this year. This might mean they are generating less downforce at the front of their floor, but it gives them lots of potential to create plenty of downforce at the rear with the diffuser.

By contrast, Ferrari's bargeboards have got bigger this year.

This could be because they need to make up the front downforce which their front wing can't create. But it could well limit the ability of their diffuser to do its thing.

In this way, Ferrari's philosophy could not only give them problems balancing the car front to rear as the season progresses, but also limit the amount of total downforce it can create.

Ferrari might not be facing any problems now, and they certainly look to have started the year with a quick car.

But as the season goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mercedes out-develop them, while the Scuderia find themselves stuck down a blind alley.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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This article was already sent and discussed here months ago.

Fer.Fan
Fer.Fan
0
Joined: 02 Mar 2015, 21:31

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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LM10 wrote:
12 May 2019, 17:43
This article was already sent and discussed here months ago.
Yes it did but everything in the article is correct. Ferrari have fundemental problems with understeear. Game over for 2019.

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Fer.Fan wrote:
12 May 2019, 18:01
LM10 wrote:
12 May 2019, 17:43
This article was already sent and discussed here months ago.
Yes it did but everything in the article is correct. Ferrari have fundemental problems with understeear.
Startling accuracy.

Yesterday, after qualifying, VET said: Ferrari were maxed out on wing angle and had too much understeer in S3.

Xwang
Xwang
29
Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Is SF90 problem an aerodynamic one or a tyre-suspension one?
I think they do not understand well how 2019 tyres behave and are not able to extract grip from tyres.

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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It is a tyre-suspension one. There is nothing fundamentally wrong aero wise on this car. And they are not that dumb to use a front wing philosophy which would make them that slow in slow speed corners. In my opinion, it’s quite obviously a mechanical thing.
They still use a pretty conventional front suspension. That’s the issue that needs to be addressed.

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F1NAC
169
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Probably one more for tyre test with PIrelli

https://mobile.twitter.com/thomasmahero ... 8812306432

McMika98
McMika98
-24
Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Its clear the car has not been fully optimised struggling with dynamics and tyres. My theory for Ferrari and RedBull dropping the ball this year is their poor reserve driver doing the simwork on the weekends. Ferrari has Hartley who was painfully slow and RedBull is using Ticktum. As for Merc, they have Ocon who is super motivated to get back next year. Last year Ferrari would find seconds overnight whereas they are going backwards if anything even with the new PU.

timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Fer.Fan wrote:
12 May 2019, 18:01
Yes it did but everything in the article is correct. Ferrari have fundemental problems with understeear. Game over for 2019.
Only through low-speed corners.
T9 was great for Vettel, so aero works just fine. There is nothing wrong with the front wing they have.

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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timbo wrote:
12 May 2019, 22:34
Fer.Fan wrote:
12 May 2019, 18:01
Yes it did but everything in the article is correct. Ferrari have fundemental problems with understeear. Game over for 2019.
Only through low-speed corners.
T9 was great for Vettel, so aero works just fine. There is nothing wrong with the front wing they have.
The following is not meant to be a sarcastic/snarky question, just throwing that disclaimer out there in case it comes across that way, but I'm asking sincerely:

If the aero works in certain high-speed corners, is that necessarily unequivocal proof that the entire aero platform/concept is sound across all corners, and any deficiencies in medium and slow-speed corners are solely down to mechanical grip?

Is it possible that certain design elements work fine in some conditions (high speed corners), but are weaker than others when the variables start to change up (ride height, steering angle, etc.)

I realize that the importance of certain aerodynamic surfaces and component decrease at lower speeds, but they do not suddenly become irrelevant to the balance and performance of the car.

Thanks in advance.

ayoubenq
ayoubenq
-1
Joined: 09 May 2015, 20:40

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Hello
I want to highlight a point here.
First of all, if F1 is going to continue like that then i suggest it's a shitty sport. All i can say, it's a shame that fans around the world are very passionate about the sport and the show is far from being entertainig
Now, Ferrari must hire consultants and freelancers to simulate that rear body and diffuser cause obviosly the aero is getting more and more chaotic when it comes to the impact of the weak of the tires on the diffuser.
Conclusion : M. Binotto can't manage everything and the organisation must adopt an agile philosophy to catch the silvers

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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timbo wrote:
12 May 2019, 22:34
Fer.Fan wrote:
12 May 2019, 18:01
Yes it did but everything in the article is correct. Ferrari have fundemental problems with understeear. Game over for 2019.
Only through low-speed corners.
T9 was great for Vettel, so aero works just fine. There is nothing wrong with the front wing they have.
The team aren't so sure:
“The limitations have become clearer this weekend,” said Mattia Binotto. “There is an understeer balance and not enough downforce. They have been there at the other races. But how long it takes to address is difficult to answer. It may even be the car concept.”
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Others have also commented earlier in the season that the Ferrari front wing might be a limiting factor in how much downforce they can add. If they're already running maximum front wing (available with their concept) and still understeering, then that suggests they're going to have to change the front wing design. If they don't find more front downforce then they can't add more anywhere else as the understeer will just get worse still.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Jambier
5
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
Location: France

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Well it was quite obvious that one of the FW concept will be better than the other.

2019 is ended for Ferrari. Now they have to understand why and get to work if they want to win in 2020

marvin78
marvin78
4
Joined: 21 Feb 2016, 09:33

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Jambier wrote:
13 May 2019, 10:13
Well it was quite obvious that one of the FW concept will be better than the other.

Why was it?