Scuderia Ferrari SF90

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Brenton
Brenton
1
Joined: 17 Dec 2017, 07:28

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

mmred wrote:
17 May 2019, 15:27
roon wrote:
17 May 2019, 04:07
dans79 wrote:
17 May 2019, 03:15


I disagree, I would say its probably 70-80% aero, and the rest suspension. If it was purely or predominantly suspension, they would have fixed it by now.
Unless it involves coarse geometry. Moving attachment points and resizing large components will incur monocoque or gearbox changes. Otherwise I agree. This is still an aero formula. It's why Red Bull have remained competitive despite their power units. If something's wrong with a car, there's a good chance it's the aero.
At low speed the behaviour is dominated by suspensions.... Red bull has indeed good aero and always had the best suspension

To add to the other post mentioning downforce at lower speed. I'll counter to the point about significant downforce at low speed by saying that a small downforce difference between two top teams that's significant at +150kph becomes too small to matter much at low speed, even if downforce is important at low speed. The differences in performance even when struggling with an aero issue are so small.

But to counter this counterpoint... low speed corners in F1 is only partially about apex speed. A big part of saving/losing time is about how quick the car is for all the rest of the corner.... much of which happens in the braking and acceleration before and after the actual corner. Has Red Bull's aero performance in recent years not shown most significantly in their braking performance? Famously demonstrated by Danny Ric's dive bombs.

Ferrari is highly expected to be worse than RB/Merc at Monaco this weekend... I'm surprised to hear this news. I've never seen in the last few years Ferrari to have so small chance at pole on a Tuesday before a race weekend. This car problem is big and real, and significant for low speed corners apparently.
Last edited by Brenton on 21 May 2019, 22:04, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Either way, they have a big hole to dig themselves out of. If they have to change the front suspension in any significant way, they will still have a lot of aero work to do after the fact.

Imo, something is still off/fishy. I find it real hard to believe that all the issues can be attributed to one lone engineer. Surely, they have a team of people, who are checking/validating each others work.
201 105 104 9 9 7

tpe
tpe
-4
Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Reading between the lines, my understanding is that the car cannot be fixed any time soon.

mmred
mmred
-3
Joined: 25 Apr 2017, 14:19

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Brenton wrote:
21 May 2019, 22:02
mmred wrote:
17 May 2019, 15:27
roon wrote:
17 May 2019, 04:07


Unless it involves coarse geometry. Moving attachment points and resizing large components will incur monocoque or gearbox changes. Otherwise I agree. This is still an aero formula. It's why Red Bull have remained competitive despite their power units. If something's wrong with a car, there's a good chance it's the aero.
At low speed the behaviour is dominated by suspensions.... Red bull has indeed good aero and always had the best suspension

To add to the other post mentioning downforce at lower speed. I'll counter to the point about significant downforce at low speed by saying that a small downforce difference between two top teams that's significant at +150kph becomes too small to matter much at low speed, even if downforce is important at low speed. The differences in performance even when struggling with an aero issue are so small.

But to counter this counterpoint... low speed corners in F1 is only partially about apex speed. A big part of saving/losing time is about how quick the car is for all the rest of the corner.... much of which happens in the braking and acceleration before and after the actual corner. Has Red Bull's aero performance in recent years not shown most significantly in their braking performance? Famously demonstrated by Danny Ric's dive bombs.

Ferrari is highly expected to be worse than RB/Merc at Monaco this weekend... I'm surprised to hear this news. I've never seen in the last few years Ferrari to have so small chance at pole on a Tuesday before a race weekend. This car problem is big and real, and significant for low speed corners apparently.
I think we all share a general feeling, the only ones really knowing are Ferrari engineers....
Ferrari used to have the best breaking system two years ago but things levelled a bit, it s behind suspension wise on normal tracks but aero wise can depend by track configuration linked to different suspension setting... We ll see

NtsParadize
NtsParadize
15
Joined: 11 May 2017, 21:17
Location: France

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image

zioture
zioture
549
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 12:46
Location: Italy

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image

Xwang
Xwang
29
Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post


zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

I have no idea what was being pointed out on the FW, but I don't see it here.

Image

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Via AMuS and @BerrageizF1
Last edited by Morteza on 22 May 2019, 18:11, edited 2 times in total.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Anything different to prior?

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

LM10 wrote:
22 May 2019, 18:37
Anything different to prior?
No I don't think so. Also I guess a new front suspension means new internal parts and not different shaped wishbones. IMO this is all just a rumor and probably not true.

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image

Image

Image
via LATImages

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

MtthsMlw wrote:
22 May 2019, 19:09
LM10 wrote:
22 May 2019, 18:37
Anything different to prior?
No I don't think so. Also I guess a new front suspension means new internal parts and not different shaped wishbones. IMO this is all just a rumor and probably not true.
Yes, I also think it most probably is just a rumor. The suspension is indeed conventional and makes life harder for Ferrari, but last reports mentioned that rather than changing suspension aero work will be done around it.

NtsParadize
NtsParadize
15
Joined: 11 May 2017, 21:17
Location: France

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post

Image