2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

[Jolle]

Slow turns were the weakest aspect in the Mercedes W9 and specially the W8, their long wheelbase (longest of the grid) was a problem in slow tracks like Monaco, as their pressure center moves backwards a lot as speed decreases, generating understeer due to the loss of front downforce
Before the start of the 2018 season, FIA introduced a new technical regulation (after Ferrari's suggestion) that limited the hight variation of the floor (front) with the variation of the direction angle. Therefore since 2018, a suspension system called "Pushrod on Upright" is legal
Ferrari tested this system later on during the 2018 season, but isn't using it this year. However, Mercedes noticed that this system was perfect to solve their slow turn problems in 2019
In the video, you can see how the W10 moves down significantly when the turning angle is at its maximum in the Monaco hairpin

https://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram.co ... tagram.com

could it be that this extension for the pivot point for the push rod is mainly to widen the steering angle for Monaco? the rotation point still looks to be in line with the two wishbone pickup points.

[Jester Maroc]

Thanks for the info. That is some sick engineering!

[yelistener]

You think so? I don't see the other cars doing the same thing...I guess I need to go and check more onboards.

Edit: The movement does not appear linear and I feel it does not match the loading of the turn. I am not an expert at all, so my opinion is probably wrong anyway...

Edit:
They have a different suspension geometry
Explained here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27911&start=1155

Slow turns were the weakest aspect in the Mercedes W9 and specially the W8, their long wheelbase (longest of the grid) was a problem in slow tracks like Monaco, as their pressure center moves backwards a lot as speed decreases, generating understeer due to the loss of front downforce
Before the start of the 2018 season, FIA introduced a new technical regulation (after Ferrari's suggestion) that limited the hight variation of the floor (front) with the variation of the direction angle. Therefore since 2018, a suspension system called "Pushrod on Upright" is legal
Ferrari tested this system later on during the 2018 season, but isn't using it this year. However, Mercedes noticed that this system was perfect to solve their slow turn problems in 2019
In the video, you can see how the W10 moves down significantly when the turning angle is at its maximum in the Monaco hairpin

This doesn't sound 100% right. W09 wasn't weak in slow corners at all. Mercedes was already beating Ferrari in slow turns in 2018, particularly during the 2nd half season. Mercedes' 2019 advantage in low speed corners didn't come as a major shock.

[GPR-A]

This doesn't sound 100% right. W09 wasn't weak in slow corners at all. Mercedes was already beating Ferrari in slow turns in 2018, particularly during the 2nd half season. Mercedes' 2019 advantage in low speed corners didn't come as a major shock.

That is correct, for those who have followed W09 closely. Singapore was a clear evidence of their turn around of slow corner performance and then it was evident in Suzuka (last chicane) and Austin (last corner). Before that, Mercedes struggled in Singapore and Red Bull and Ferrari swapped upper hand in the past few years.

For this year, they have improved their solution further. After the 3rd day of second winter test, Bottas pointed out the difference in slow corner performance.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14180 ... est-window

"I really feel there are areas the car has made good steps forward, in slow-speed corners the car feels better than last year, but in other areas there is still work to do."

[godlameroso]

How many safety cars?

[GPR-A]

How many safety cars?

Not sure of total numbers, but my hunch is, Bernd Maylander would be the first driver to cross the finish line!

[siskue2005]

You think so? I don't see the other cars doing the same thing...I guess I need to go and check more onboards.

Edit: The movement does not appear linear and I feel it does not match the loading of the turn. I am not an expert at all, so my opinion is probably wrong anyway...

Edit:
They have a different suspension geometry
Explained here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27911&start=1155

Slow turns were the weakest aspect in the Mercedes W9 and specially the W8, their long wheelbase (longest of the grid) was a problem in slow tracks like Monaco, as their pressure center moves backwards a lot as speed decreases, generating understeer due to the loss of front downforce
Before the start of the 2018 season, FIA introduced a new technical regulation (after Ferrari's suggestion) that limited the hight variation of the floor (front) with the variation of the direction angle. Therefore since 2018, a suspension system called "Pushrod on Upright" is legal
Ferrari tested this system later on during the 2018 season, but isn't using it this year. However, Mercedes noticed that this system was perfect to solve their slow turn problems in 2019
In the video, you can see how the W10 moves down significantly when the turning angle is at its maximum in the Monaco hairpin

This doesn't sound 100% right. W09 wasn't weak in slow corners at all. Mercedes was already beating Ferrari in slow turns in 2018, particularly during the 2nd half season. Mercedes' 2019 advantage in low speed corners didn't come as a major shock.

Their advantage came in late 2018 due to their new wheel rim introduced in Singapore... this year they have furthur improved it, evidenced by bottas comment and their massive advantage in sector 3 in Barcelona compared to last year.

[digitalrurouni]

You are saying the ribbed rim is helping generate mechanical grip in low speed corners? I thought the ribbed rim helped keep the tires in their operating window.

[Jolle]

You are saying the ribbed rim is helping generate mechanical grip in low speed corners? I thought the ribbed rim helped keep the tires in their operating window.

what makes them sticky in low speed corners...

[dans79]

The ribbed rim are only in the rear, so that's not what s giving them a good front end.

[erudite450]

Edit:
They have a different suspension geometry
Explained here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27911&start=1155

This doesn't sound 100% right. W09 wasn't weak in slow corners at all. Mercedes was already beating Ferrari in slow turns in 2018, particularly during the 2nd half season. Mercedes' 2019 advantage in low speed corners didn't come as a major shock.

Their advantage came in late 2018 due to their new wheel rim introduced in Singapore... this year they have furthur improved it, evidenced by bottas comment and their massive advantage in sector 3 in Barcelona compared to last year.

In the last 4 races of last season - COTA, Mexico City, Interlagos and Abu Dhabi - Mercedes were much quicker than Ferrari in the slow corners (2nd sector in Interlagos, and 3rd sector in COTA, Mexico City and Abu Dhabi). To give you an idea how close the cars were: Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen within a tenth in Q3 in COTA and the top 4 cars within 2 tenths in Interlagos.
On your point about the wheel rim, they DID NOT run the rims in any of these races. They stopped running the rims after Suzuka. As James Allison said in Singapore, the solution to their slow-corner problems had been gradual, starting from the beginning of last season as was evident, in his own words, by the stark difference between the handling of the W08 vs W09 in the last sector at the Hungaroring.
The wheel rims was mainly to improve the race performance (tyre management) rather than single lap speed.

[siskue2005]

The ribbed rim are only in the rear, so that's not what s giving them a good front end.

The ribbed rim gave them good rear end without overheating their tyres, and hence improving their traction in slow speed corners in 2018.... they already had good front end on par with Ferrari and redbull in 2018, but their problem was overheating rear tyres by the end of the lap (2018 Monaco gp Lewis almost same level with Riccardo until s2 and losing all the time in s3)

This year with the ribbed rim and the new front suspension they are unstoppable in slow speed... Bottas quote from preseason test also confirms this

[erudite450]

The ribbed rim are only in the rear, so that's not what s giving them a good front end.

The ribbed rim gave them good rear end without overheating their tyres, and hence improving their traction in slow speed corners in 2018.... they already had good front end on par with Ferrari and redbull in 2018, but their problem was overheating rear tyres by the end of the lap (2018 Monaco gp Lewis almost same level with Riccardo until s2 and losing all the time in s3)

This year with the ribbed rim and the new front suspension they are unstoppable in slow speed... Bottas quote from preseason test also confirms this

What explains their big advantage over Ferrari in the slow corners in the last 4 races of 2018 when they didn't run the rims - 2nd sector in Interlagos, and 3rd sector in COTA, Mexico City and Yas Marina? The wheel rim was there for tyre management in the race and has very little effect on single lap speed.

[siskue2005]

The ribbed rim are only in the rear, so that's not what s giving them a good front end.

The ribbed rim gave them good rear end without overheating their tyres, and hence improving their traction in slow speed corners in 2018.... they already had good front end on par with Ferrari and redbull in 2018, but their problem was overheating rear tyres by the end of the lap (2018 Monaco gp Lewis almost same level with Riccardo until s2 and losing all the time in s3)

This year with the ribbed rim and the new front suspension they are unstoppable in slow speed... Bottas quote from preseason test also confirms this

What explains their big advantage over Ferrari in the slow corners in the last 4 races of 2018 when they didn't run the rims - 2nd sector in Interlagos, and 3rd sector in COTA, Mexico City and Yas Marina? The wheel rim was there for tyre management in the race and has very little effect on single lap speed.

Please substantiate you claim for their "massive advantage" in Mexico, COTA and yas marina

How can a significant wheel rim change have absolutely no effect on the qualy pace! How can it be " only " for race.... so there is absolutely no degradation on the tyre in qualifying?

[erudite450]

The ribbed rim gave them good rear end without overheating their tyres, and hence improving their traction in slow speed corners in 2018.... they already had good front end on par with Ferrari and redbull in 2018, but their problem was overheating rear tyres by the end of the lap (2018 Monaco gp Lewis almost same level with Riccardo until s2 and losing all the time in s3)

This year with the ribbed rim and the new front suspension they are unstoppable in slow speed... Bottas quote from preseason test also confirms this

What explains their big advantage over Ferrari in the slow corners in the last 4 races of 2018 when they didn't run the rims - 2nd sector in Interlagos, and 3rd sector in COTA, Mexico City and Yas Marina? The wheel rim was there for tyre management in the race and has very little effect on single lap speed.

Please substantiate you claim for their "massive advantage" in Mexico, COTA and yas marina

Abu Dhabi 3rd sectors: Ricciardo 37.263, Hamilton 37.356, Bottas 37.440, Verstappen 37.634, Vettel 37.858, Raikkonen 37.862
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... ication-20

Interlagos 2nd sectors: Hamilton 34.122, Verstappen 34.228, Ricciardo 34.232, Bottas 34.241, Vettel 34.287, Raikkonen 34.290
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... ication-18

Mexico City 3rd sectors: Ricciardo 19.275, Verstappen 19.315, Hamilton 19.341, Bottas 19.520, Vettel 19.527, Raikkonen 19.692
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... ication-17

COTA 3rd sectors: Hamilton 30.663, Ricciardo 30.797, Raikkonen 30.827, Bottas 30.843, Vettel 30.856, Verstappen had PU penalties
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... ication-22

Mercedes were consistently faster than Ferrari in the slow corners without the supposed "magic" rims.