Which One is Fastest?

[Jolle]

pole 2015 (first year): 53.5, fastest lap in the race: 55.2
pole 2019 (gen2 car): 53.3 fastest lap in the race: 52.3 (probably because of the Mario Kart rules)

False, pole in 2019 was 50.0

Indeed, Wikipedia has the wrong times. But still far off 7 seconds.

[gibells]

Despite is my misgivings about going electric, I do think that racing is a fantastic way to develop battery tech and drivetrains. What no-one is mentioning is that the Gen2 cars are able to go the entire race distance, rather than embarrassingly changing cars halfway through ala Gen1.

Give them time and they will make even more strides.

All this talk about series hate makes out like you can only support one franchise. Reality is if you're on F1T you love and watch it all.

[Jolle]

Despite is my misgivings about going electric, I do think that racing is a fantastic way to develop battery tech and drivetrains. What no-one is mentioning is that the Gen2 cars are able to go the entire race distance, rather than embarrassingly changing cars halfway through ala Gen1.

Give them time and they will make even more strides.

All this talk about series hate makes out like you can only support one franchise. Reality is if you're on F1T you love and watch it all.

Oh I love electric racing. I was astonished when I tested a race Tesla roadster years ago (I supplied electric mopeds to the Zandvoort circuit and a lot of racing teams and my company sponsored a car in the diesel cup), the throttle response was by far the best of any race car I drove and I follow the electric TT motor racing.

And Formula E is innovating, but for me not really on the technical side but a new way to market racing. The electric power makes it possible to go places where no races could be held and proven itself to be the main competitor for the WEC series and DTM for car manufacturers to put up a show. But, on the technical side, it’s a spec series so there are no investments from for instance battery manufacturers to come with better tech or new developments. It’s all locked in tenders.

[joshuagore]

Performance wise Formula E is actually quite pathetic. 200kW in race trim with 900 kg of mass, that’s not far off reasonably priced road cars. The only reason it looks good on track because of the narrow short road courses and the very hard tires, which makes it look like they race on ice.

So any series wich is not extremelly fast is pathetic and cannot look good at any track?

Formula Ford is pathetic? WTCC is pathetic?

Sorry Jolle, but your bias is too obvious

You downvoted me because my analysis isn’t accurate? Which part?

We can all imagine an all electric f1 car that beats the ICE but it would last 4 laps and be a time attack(have not done the math on this, just a guesstimate), or some kinda sprint. There are limits on wh/kg with batteries, hard to beat gasoline in the 4 wheel form factor. Checkout Isle of Man electric, that may be a better form factor to showcase the direct comparison. Electric is awesome can it can be anywhere...it motivated me to get into ebikes, dirtbikes get kicked out of the spare lot because of noise.

[gibells]

Despite is my misgivings about going electric, I do think that racing is a fantastic way to develop battery tech and drivetrains. What no-one is mentioning is that the Gen2 cars are able to go the entire race distance, rather than embarrassingly changing cars halfway through ala Gen1.

Give them time and they will make even more strides.

All this talk about series hate makes out like you can only support one franchise. Reality is if you're on F1T you love and watch it all.

Oh I love electric racing. I was astonished when I tested a race Tesla roadster years ago (I supplied electric mopeds to the Zandvoort circuit and a lot of racing teams and my company sponsored a car in the diesel cup), the throttle response was by far the best of any race car I drove and I follow the electric TT motor racing.

And Formula E is innovating, but for me not really on the technical side but a new way to market racing. The electric power makes it possible to go places where no races could be held and proven itself to be the main competitor for the WEC series and DTM for car manufacturers to put up a show. But, on the technical side, it’s a spec series so there are no investments from for instance battery manufacturers to come with better tech or new developments. It’s all locked in tenders.

I've been corrected by Mark Priestley on his blog before. Whilst the batteries and chassis are spec, everything behind that, i.e. powertrain, is open to team design. The feeling I get is that this opening up will extend forward in the future. Besides, based on previous discussions of weight, power & aero etc, it's a bit of a waste of money to prototype other elements until aero really comes into play.

[Andres125sx]

Despite is my misgivings about going electric, I do think that racing is a fantastic way to develop battery tech and drivetrains. What no-one is mentioning is that the Gen2 cars are able to go the entire race distance, rather than embarrassingly changing cars halfway through ala Gen1.

Give them time and they will make even more strides.

All this talk about series hate makes out like you can only support one franchise. Reality is if you're on F1T you love and watch it all.

Oh I love electric racing. I was astonished when I tested a race Tesla roadster years ago (I supplied electric mopeds to the Zandvoort circuit and a lot of racing teams and my company sponsored a car in the diesel cup), the throttle response was by far the best of any race car I drove and I follow the electric TT motor racing.

And Formula E is innovating, but for me not really on the technical side but a new way to market racing. The electric power makes it possible to go places where no races could be held and proven itself to be the main competitor for the WEC series and DTM for car manufacturers to put up a show. But, on the technical side, it’s a spec series so there are no investments from for instance battery manufacturers to come with better tech or new developments. It’s all locked in tenders.

So far

The idea with FE as they´ve explained theirselves is to first consolidate the series, then open up development step by step. Freedom to develop means huge budgets, but manufacturers and teams must be sure the series will have a future and their investments will be worth before building a big team, and on a new series they can´t, so I think the strategy was perfect, at first start spec so budgets are very small and manufacturers can join easily, then once the series is consolidated start opening up areas to develop, the investment will increase rationally and the series will grow up

First season it was 100% spec, in next seasons they opened up gearbox development. Some cars were single gear, some had two, some more. I´m not the best person to explain as I didn´t follow first seasons closely, but I think there´s some other part wich was unlocked as well.

Batteries not yet, but even so they´ve improved it quite a bit. Now they last double distance while provinding more peak power (25%), and can´t remind the numbers but the weight was far from double the previous one.

I´m still wondering if they just improved same technology or if it´s some of the new LiS or whatever

[Andres125sx]

pole 2015 (first year): 53.5, fastest lap in the race: 55.2
pole 2019 (gen2 car): 53.3 fastest lap in the race: 52.3 (probably because of the Mario Kart rules)

False, pole in 2019 was 50.0

Indeed, Wikipedia has the wrong times. But still far off 7 seconds.

Yes watching the video again it looks like race laps, so we can´t know if some of them was saving more energy that the other one increasing the gap. Anycase 3.5 seconds is still a huge improvement on a 50 seconds lap, it will be more than 7 seconds on any traditional track

[Andres125sx]

Ok going to YT the description explains the laps are from FP1, but still we can´t know if they were using same power

[Andres125sx]

Interesting video showing power train differences between teams from season 2 wich was opened up, and changes from season 2 to season 3

[NathanOlder]

False, pole in 2019 was 50.0

Indeed, Wikipedia has the wrong times. But still far off 7 seconds.

Yes watching the video again it looks like race laps, so we can´t know if some of them was saving more energy that the other one increasing the gap. Anycase 3.5 seconds is still a huge improvement on a 50 seconds lap, it will be more than 7 seconds on any traditional track

It probably would be about 7 seconds on any traditional track, but they wont go there yet as they will be doing 7 laps before they run out of juice and doing 7 minute laps around Spa

[Andres125sx]

Indeed, Wikipedia has the wrong times. But still far off 7 seconds.

Yes watching the video again it looks like race laps, so we can´t know if some of them was saving more energy that the other one increasing the gap. Anycase 3.5 seconds is still a huge improvement on a 50 seconds lap, it will be more than 7 seconds on any traditional track

It probably would be about 7 seconds on any traditional track, but they wont go there yet as they will be doing 7 laps before they run out of juice and doing 7 minute laps around Spa

45 minutes of battery in your opinion would provide juice for 7 laps? I see maths are not your field Nathan


I´ve been trying to compare min speed though a corner, and I was able in Monaco, finally!

At corner 13, the left-right hand chicane before the pool, FE was doing around 165km/h, F1 235km/h

That may look as a extremelly big difference, but that´s pretty normal between F1 and any other category


Anyone have seen any other race in the weekend in Monaco to compare maybe with porsche cup?

[NathanOlder]

Yes watching the video again it looks like race laps, so we can´t know if some of them was saving more energy that the other one increasing the gap. Anycase 3.5 seconds is still a huge improvement on a 50 seconds lap, it will be more than 7 seconds on any traditional track

It probably would be about 7 seconds on any traditional track, but they wont go there yet as they will be doing 7 laps before they run out of juice and doing 7 minute laps around Spa

45 minutes of battery in your opinion would provide juice for 7 laps? I see maths are not your field Nathan

And I see you have not even a fraction of the intelligence you are trying yo have us believe.

Try work this one out. If a battery lasts 45 minutes (as you point out), and you are lapping at 7mins per lap (as I mentioned) . Have a wild random guess as to what lap you will run out of juice buddy

[Andres125sx]

Sorry, I didn´t take your 7 minutes per lap seriously, you were serious with that?

[Phil]

Energy conservation is a huge deal in FE. On top of that, most tracks are flat and short. If they were to do a lap around Spa with those rather big altitude changes, my guess is they indeed wouldn't be able to do many laps before, yes, running out of juice.

[Pingguest]

Does anyone know how much downforce a Formula E-car generates?