Scuderia Ferrari SF90

[izzy]

one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Yes - they read the rules and made use of what those rules allowed them to do. That's just clever thinking.

i wasn't complaining, just explaining how it's more than being 'a tank'

[Alexf1]

Haven't Pirell also made the structure of the 2019 tyres harder compared to 2018? I guess this is where most teams struggle with this year except Mercs tank

yes exactly, Pirelli changed the structure, to cope with more downforce from the bigger wings plus the massive development race this year. they left the tread thin to avoid blistering and also at the same time make them more affected by wear, for more pitstops.

so now cars have to warm up the carcass with load, without melting the surface. one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Therefore the stiffer structure of the tyres is what I think teams struggle with. Not the 0.4mm thinner thread

[izzy]

Haven't Pirell also made the structure of the 2019 tyres harder compared to 2018? I guess this is where most teams struggle with this year except Mercs tank

yes exactly, Pirelli changed the structure, to cope with more downforce from the bigger wings plus the massive development race this year. they left the tread thin to avoid blistering and also at the same time make them more affected by wear, for more pitstops.

so now cars have to warm up the carcass with load, without melting the surface. one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Therefore the stiffer structure of the tyres is what I think teams struggle with. Not the 0.4mm thinner thread

yes i agree. even last year Seb was saying the thinner tread was good for the Ferrari as well. but now the carcass needs a lot of load to get it working, warm enough to be supple

[wuzak]

yes i agree. even last year Seb was saying the thinner tread was good for the Ferrari as well. but now the carcass needs a lot of load to get it working, warm enough to be supple

At Barcelona, where he tested the normal tyre and the thin tread tyre back-to-back.

[gioma]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 249-28.jpg

The floor looks like it's made of wood.

The Nomex honeycomb core has that same color.

As far as I remember from when Carbon fiber was introduced to F1 wings this is Kevlar (extremely lightweight) and not Nomex:

https://www.corecomposites.com/products ... ycomb.html

[izzy]

yes i agree. even last year Seb was saying the thinner tread was good for the Ferrari as well. but now the carcass needs a lot of load to get it working, warm enough to be supple

At Barcelona, where he tested the normal tyre and the thin tread tyre back-to-back.

Yes Seb is 'the man who knows' isn't he, and he was gracious enough to say it at the time

[wuzak]

yes i agree. even last year Seb was saying the thinner tread was good for the Ferrari as well. but now the carcass needs a lot of load to get it working, warm enough to be supple

At Barcelona, where he tested the normal tyre and the thin tread tyre back-to-back.

Yes Seb is 'the man who knows' isn't he, and he was gracious enough to say it at the time

The point is that Ferrari didn't have too many problems with the regular tyre, except at Barcelona. They may have had problems at Paul Ricard and Silverstone, but since the regular tyre wasn't used there we'll never know.

[Maritimer]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 249-28.jpg

The floor looks like it's made of wood.

The Nomex honeycomb core has that same color.

Nomex is a fire retardant, that's Kevlar.

[roon]

[izzy]

At Barcelona, where he tested the normal tyre and the thin tread tyre back-to-back.

Yes Seb is 'the man who knows' isn't he, and he was gracious enough to say it at the time

The point is that Ferrari didn't have too many problems with the regular tyre, except at Barcelona. They may have had problems at Paul Ricard and Silverstone, but since the regular tyre wasn't used there we'll never know.

The point is the story that the thinner tread is terribly unfair on Ferrari is bunk . And this year it's the same for everyone and more about the construction

[ENGINE TUNER]

The point is that Ferrari didn't have too many problems with the regular tyre, except at Barcelona. They may have had problems at Paul Ricard and Silverstone, but since the regular tyre wasn't used there we'll never know.

Did you see RAI's tires after Monza, or how much the Ferrari's blistered in Austria?

[ENGINE TUNER]

Haven't Pirell also made the structure of the 2019 tyres harder compared to 2018? I guess this is where most teams struggle with this year except Mercs tank

yes exactly, Pirelli changed the structure, to cope with more downforce from the bigger wings plus the massive development race this year. they left the tread thin to avoid blistering and also at the same time make them more affected by wear, for more pitstops.

so now cars have to warm up the carcass with load, without melting the surface. one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Do you have any source for this supposed increase in sidewall stiffness? Downforce was anticipated to decrease because of the 2019 aero regs with an increase of 1.5s per lap around Spain being the most common prediction. As far as I know pirelli made no mention of any construction changes or sidewall stiffness increase. Pirelli predicted a wider operating temperature range for 2019 and longer tire life closer to the limit(due to less blistering ), but they have usually been wrong about there own tires for years.

[One and Only]

Haven't Pirell also made the structure of the 2019 tyres harder compared to 2018? I guess this is where most teams struggle with this year except Mercs tank

yes exactly, Pirelli changed the structure, to cope with more downforce from the bigger wings plus the massive development race this year. they left the tread thin to avoid blistering and also at the same time make them more affected by wear, for more pitstops.

so now cars have to warm up the carcass with load, without melting the surface. one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Do you have any source for this supposed increase in sidewall stiffness? Downforce was anticipated to decrease because of the 2019 aero regs with an increase of 1.5s per lap around Spain being the most common prediction. As far as I know pirelli made no mention of any construction changes or sidewall stiffness increase. Pirelli predicted a wider operating temperature range for 2019 and longer tire life closer to the limit(due to less blistering ), but they have usually been wrong about there own tires for years.

Bold part really bothers me. Everyone is having problems finding operating window of these tires. Even Mercedes, just less than others it seems. I cannot believe Pirelli did awesome job and 10 teams cannot understand that. It's not like people in these teams work with racing cars for last couple of years so they cannot understand tires.

[izzy]

Haven't Pirell also made the structure of the 2019 tyres harder compared to 2018? I guess this is where most teams struggle with this year except Mercs tank

yes exactly, Pirelli changed the structure, to cope with more downforce from the bigger wings plus the massive development race this year. they left the tread thin to avoid blistering and also at the same time make them more affected by wear, for more pitstops.

so now cars have to warm up the carcass with load, without melting the surface. one thing was that at the race last year before the tyre test, Mercedes apparently ran with extra tyre sensors, that then they were allowed to do the tyre test with! if that's true then it must've helped steer them to their high front downforce concept, that they were rather late with...

Do you have any source for this supposed increase in sidewall stiffness? Downforce was anticipated to decrease because of the 2019 aero regs with an increase of 1.5s per lap around Spain being the most common prediction. As far as I know pirelli made no mention of any construction changes or sidewall stiffness increase. Pirelli predicted a wider operating temperature range for 2019 and longer tire life closer to the limit(due to less blistering ), but they have usually been wrong about there own tires for years.

Christian Horner said they're stiffer:

"We were very good on the tyres at the end of last year," Horner said. “Obviously there’s what something like 25 percent less rubber on these tyres, and they are stiffer.

https://f1i.com/news/341527-horner-very ... 2019.html
i've seen it somewhere else too. Pirelli said they'd changed the construction but not exactly what the effect was.

With the downforce, there was a lot of confusion. But they made the wings wider and also deeper, to offset the loss from cutting cascade wings and outwash, so they could change the shape of the wake to help following, supposedly, without making the cars slower. and maybe Pirelli were guessing what's actually happened, that teams have found ways of keeping a lot of their lovely outwash anyway, so the cars are faster if anything not slower and that's what we've seen isn't it

[ENGINE TUNER]

Christian Horner said they're stiffer:

"We were very good on the tyres at the end of last year," Horner said. “Obviously there’s what something like 25 percent less rubber on these tyres, and they are stiffer.

https://f1i.com/news/341527-horner-very ... 2019.html
i've seen it somewhere else too. Pirelli said they'd changed the construction but not exactly what the effect was.

With the downforce, there was a lot of confusion. But they made the wings wider and also deeper, to offset the loss from cutting cascade wings and outwash, so they could change the shape of the wake to help following, supposedly, without making the cars slower. and maybe Pirelli were guessing what's actually happened, that teams have found ways of keeping a lot of their lovely outwash anyway, so the cars are faster if anything not slower and that's what we've seen isn't it

Horner is NOT a credible source, in fact he is a known to be a liar often, that is part of his job for RBR. Neither is he a technical person.

Downforce is lower across the grid except for Merc. That is what most of the numbers say to my understanding.