Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
did Mercs claimed the collaboration of Honda jet crew ?
Official version: Toro Rosso don't want to have 2 penalties at one GP.TNTHead wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 22:43Interesting. Kvyat with new PU and Albon with the previous spec for comparison?etusch wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 22:04https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... NHZQo.html
Red Bull’s Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly, plus Toro Rosso’s Daniil Kvyat, will have a fresh, updated Honda power unit in the back of their cars for this weekend’s French Grand Prix – and while encouraged, the trio have moved to play down expectations regarding a power increase.
Honda have been playing catch-up in the engine stakes since they returned to F1, but have been on an upward trajectory since parting ways with McLaren and joining Toro Rosso last year, before adding Red Bull to their stable this season.
Data from the Japanese manufacturer’s dynos at Sakura showed a power improvement, so they have opted to bring the update – their third of the season – to the track. And while running the new internal combustion engine and turbocharger means a penalty for Kvyat in France and Verstappen and Gasly set for penalties with their next change, it’s a move that has the full support of Red Bull and Toro Rosso.
“It is a little step forward,” said Verstappen. “It’s not going to be enough to really challenge Ferrari and Mercedes on the straights but every little bit helps us. We just keep pushing forward.
“It’s never less than what they promise so that’s good. They are very realistic and honest about it. That’s way more important than promising things and not delivering. They are definitely delivering so they are definitely on target.
“As a driver, you always want more – but they know that and they’re working hard. We already said at the beginning of the season, if there is something better, bring it, we don’t wait. We’ll take penalties at some point this year, but that’s not a problem. We just want to find the performance.”
His team mate Gasly echoed those sentiments. “The last we introduced was more on the reliability side, this one will be focused more on the performance, but we don’t expect a massive gain from it,” he said.
“The overall performance will be slightly increased, but it’s not like it’s going to change massively, or we’re going to catch the teams ahead of us massively. Let’s see what we can do during the weekend. It will give us a bit more in the race. It’s not going to be a massive difference in qualifying, but a bit more in the race.”
Kvyat, who will likely start from the back of the grid, will get the update whereas team mate Alexander Albon will have to wait because Toro Rosso didn’t want to take penalties with both cars. It has also emerged Kvyat’s engine was chosen as the one to change because they were concerned about his current unit.
“We really had to take it here because the guys saw something on my PU which they didn’t like a lot, so we take the update, just to be sure," said Kvyat.
“It was available for here, so we thought, ‘why not?’, so we’ll see how it will deliver. Hopefully it will have even more power than what we expect. It would be a nice surprise. We’re talking about small numbers, so I don’t expect any big changes [or to] turn the world upside down.”
The Spec 2 Renault is not to be underestimated!McMika98 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 19:16https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180
Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.
I don't think anyone is underestimating it, but as far as this thread goes now with some of these hilarious posts, it's very likely the most powerful unit on the field!PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑21 Jun 2019, 03:15The Spec 2 Renault is not to be underestimated!McMika98 wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 19:16https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180
Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... 21/post_8/We have always tried to introduce various technologies from the all-Honda Research Laboratory at All-Honda in order to boost the performance of the F1, but one of the great achievements is the aircraft engine development division in the turbocharger section (Honda I was able to improve the efficiency by putting the technology of the jet section) into the turbo developed jointly with IHI, in the form of putting the technology of Honda. "
ICE (internal combustion engine) Also, the company has introduced fine details and has optimized it in line with the new turbo. The effect obtained by this is only a few kW in terms of maximum power. However, as the efficiency of the turbo increases, it will be possible to increase the amount of power generation by turning more MGU-H (*) connected there and to increase the boost pressure of the intake air sent to the ICE.
※ MGU-H = Motor Generator Unit-Heat. A device that regenerates thermal energy from exhaust gas.
"The power is not 10 kW or so, but it is not such a level, but by distributing the portion where the efficiency of the turbo is increased, not only the turbo but also the MGU-H will be able to make use of ICE. The overall performance has been improved, which leads to a higher performance in the final than the peak power in qualifying. It is not flashy, but it can be expected that it will be a car that will be defeated on the track in the finals
If this spec is the first one with the IHI partnership materialised, it might be a big moment: is their development really going into the right direction! And is there really an efficiency gain.Snorked wrote: ↑21 Jun 2019, 13:54Honda's technical director Toyoji Tanabe explains:
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... 21/post_8/We have always tried to introduce various technologies from the all-Honda Research Laboratory at All-Honda in order to boost the performance of the F1, but one of the great achievements is the aircraft engine development division in the turbocharger section (Honda I was able to improve the efficiency by putting the technology of the jet section) into the turbo developed jointly with IHI, in the form of putting the technology of Honda. "
ICE (internal combustion engine) Also, the company has introduced fine details and has optimized it in line with the new turbo. The effect obtained by this is only a few kW in terms of maximum power. However, as the efficiency of the turbo increases, it will be possible to increase the amount of power generation by turning more MGU-H (*) connected there and to increase the boost pressure of the intake air sent to the ICE.
※ MGU-H = Motor Generator Unit-Heat. A device that regenerates thermal energy from exhaust gas.
"The power is not 10 kW or so, but it is not such a level, but by distributing the portion where the efficiency of the turbo is increased, not only the turbo but also the MGU-H will be able to make use of ICE. The overall performance has been improved, which leads to a higher performance in the final than the peak power in qualifying. It is not flashy, but it can be expected that it will be a car that will be defeated on the track in the finals
I disagree, there is no harm in promoting Honda Jet but this also shows their commitment and that they are going all out- Japanese style.loner wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 22:48did Mercs claimed the collaboration of Honda jet crew ?
Tanabe talked big for what ? 10 HP .. did Honda felt the need to promote and advertise their plane suddenly in the F1 world ?!!
however regardless this 10 hp figure if they will be able to run the PU in mode 7 for longer time after this update i will applause them.
The 'Spec 3' engine introduced at last weekend's French Grand Prix featured upgrades mainly around the turbo and the internal combustion engine.
Honda's F1 research and development personnel at Sakura have been working with their jet-engine counterparts for two years, and this collaboration paved the way for a major breakthrough with the reliability of Honda's MGU-H in for 2018's Spec 3 - which was introduced late last year.
Yasuaki Asaki, who heads up the Sakura side of the F1 operations, then suggested during a meeting of Honda bosses that a collaboration on the turbine side would also be beneficial.
"The jet engine itself is completely different," Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe told Autosport. "But the turbocharger and MGU-H is kind of like the turbine in the jet.
"It uses high-speed rotation, and needs some aero design for the turbine.
"I think there is very common technology there."
Autosport understands that part of the inspiration taken from Honda's HF120 jet engine for the F1 project is a change in the design of the blades inside the components.
"If you're only working for F1 naturally your focus will be just inside this world," Honda F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto told Autosport.
"We can have a different point of view from other areas, other people, have their advice.
"This time it was the aerodynamics area of the turbine.
"That new point of view give us the essence of some improvement."
The HF120 powers the award-winning HA-420 HondaJet, a six-seat light business jet, and operates in intense conditions at high altitude.
It comprises two turbines, a smaller high-pressure component with single crystal blades producing lower fuel burn and a larger, low-pressure, counter-rotating turbine that boasts lower weight.
With Honda introducing its Spec 3 engine for the eighth race of the 21-event season, the prospect exists for further development this year at the cost of grid penalties.
Tanabe said that the earlier-than-conventional introduction was "kind of according to plan" but also influenced by the "long-term" nature of the collaboration with the jet engine research and development team.
"It takes a long time," he said. "It's a bit difficult to say 'next month [it will be ready]'.
"We decided on the Honda side that we were ready, discussed with the teams which would be the best timing and decided to apply it [in France]."
Honda had already outlined that the new engine would not trigger a dramatic performance step, even though its dyno testing has registered a small power increase.
But it was satisfied with the reliability and calibration of its upgraded engine in France, and that should give it the platform to push for more power with subsequent upgrades.
"If you have a high-efficiency turbocharger, you can share that benefit to the ICE side and also the MGU-H side," said Tanabe.
"Especially in this Spec 3 development we have a high efficiency turbocharger.
"Then we can optimise the engine's total balance of performance.
"You can get more efficient energy from the turbocharger, and we can share it across the engine in terms of energy management."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14435 ... 1-upgrades
Of the whole news, the one that most caught my atention was the single crystal blade, here is a description of what this is:HPD wrote: ↑25 Jun 2019, 13:51https://aviationweek.com/site-files/avi ... ngine3.jpg
It comprises two turbines, a smaller high-pressure component with single crystal blades producing lower fuel burn and a larger, low-pressure, counter-rotating turbine that boasts lower weight.
With Honda introducing its Spec 3 engine for the eighth race of the 21-event season, the prospect exists for further development this year at the cost of grid penalties.
But it was satisfied with the reliability and calibration of its upgraded engine in France, and that should give it the platform to push for more power with subsequent upgrades.
"If you have a high-efficiency turbocharger, you can share that benefit to the ICE side and also the MGU-H side," said Tanabe.
"Especially in this Spec 3 development we have a high efficiency turbocharger.
"Then we can optimise the engine's total balance of performance.
"You can get more efficient energy from the turbocharger, and we can share it across the engine in terms of energy management."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14435 ... 1-upgrades
https://www.gehonda.com/_/img/engine/ex ... _color.png
