2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

[Phil]

I am quite frankly amazed that people seriously wanted to see Max penalized. If Leclerc didnt want to be put in a position where his tarmac was always going to disappear (the outside on corner exit).... he should have simply defended the inside because that’s where the majority of most successful defenses take place - not the outside / longer way around the corner.

It was stupid the first time, even more so the second time. I’ll give credit to Leclerc for having the balls to keep his foot planted on both occasions and battling back the position once, but it was always going to be a futile attempt.

Absolutely right decision. I’m surprised they even bothered with an investigation.

[Nathanael F1]

Please someone explain the rules of F1. I thought if you're alongside someone you have to leave space. VER ran LEC off track

[Phil]

I recommend driving full throttle at the limit into a corner. Once you commit to a given speed around a corner, your trajectory is more or less a given and will carry you outwards. You cant siimply turn in more and leave space - you’d only achieve that by lifting, which could induce oversteer from the shift in weight.

Thus, why the gap on corner exit usually closes and why finding yourself on the outside into a corner of a car you are overtaking is dangerous/risky.

[dans79]

I recommend driving full throttle at the limit into a corner. Once you commit to a given speed around a corner, your trajectory is more or less a given and will carry you outwards. You cant siimply turn in more and leave space - you’d only achieve that by lifting, which could induce oversteer from the shift in weight.

Thus, why the gap on corner exit usually closes and why finding yourself on the outside into a corner of a car you are overtaking is dangerous/risky.

yep, and that is why unless the inside driver does something blatantly aggressive, almost nothing ever comes of it.

[roon]

Regarding leaving a car's width: why was VET in Canada different than VER in Austria? For one: VET was on defence and slower than the other car--VER was on offence and faster. Does that matter? Does anyone know how the rules specifically apply in both circumstances?

[dans79]

Regarding leaving a car's width: why was VET in Canada different than VER in Austria? For one: VET was on defence and slower than the other car--VER was on offence and faster. Does that matter? Does anyone know how the rules specifically apply in both circumstances?

Vettel also left the track and when he rejoined wasn't under full control of his car!

[TAG]

Regarding leaving a car's width: why was VET in Canada different than VER in Austria? For one: VET was on defence and slower than the other car--VER was on offence and faster. Does that matter? Does anyone know how the rules specifically apply in both circumstances?

Still on about Canada?

Yes, the stewards do and that's what they're there to do and make a decision with all of the evidence at their disposal. Been doing a pretty good job of it lately.

[szlaszlo84]

On another note, do you friends think that Vettel could have caught Bottas if not for the troubled pit stop? Feels like Ferrari keeps shooting themselves in the foot wherever they can.

[Bill]

"Congratulations to Pirelli. They deserve a high five. They've done an amazing job giving us a tyre that nobody was able to complain [about] today." Toto Wolf

[roon]

Regarding leaving a car's width: why was VET in Canada different than VER in Austria? For one: VET was on defence and slower than the other car--VER was on offence and faster. Does that matter? Does anyone know how the rules specifically apply in both circumstances?

Vettel also left the track and when he rejoined wasn't under full control of his car!

I thought the penalty was for not leaving space which led to Hamilton going off track. Which may be to say: the inside driver in an alongside-situation must allow a car to remain within the track boundaries until no longer beside.

Variables seem to include:
-whether inside car is on offense or defense
-speed delta between cars
-presence of walls vs presence of runoff
-whether a car had recently re-entered the track from a low grip surface

I dont know what the mix of rules is, nor whether they apply in both circumstances. Technical regulations are regularly quoted on this forum but I rarely see the sporting regulations referenced.

[djos]

"Congratulations to Pirelli. They deserve a high five. They've done an amazing job giving us a tyre that nobody was able to complain [about] today." Toto Wolf

Lol, clearly he hasn't spoken to Haas!

[timbo]

It was stupid the first time, even more so the second time. I’ll give credit to Leclerc for having the balls to keep his foot planted on both occasions and battling back the position once, but it was always going to be a futile attempt.

You see, you mention his previous lap, so it's not always futile.

PS, it seems that Ferrari had much better traction when NOT hitting the apex, so outside trajectory could have been benefitial: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27912&start=1410#p844914

[SAEED]

VER having a bad start was probably a blessing in disguise. Ferrari didn't register him as a threat as a result. They responded to BOT pitstop, compromising them against VER. Otherwise they could have gone longer on softs.

[Just_a_fan]

I thought the penalty was for not leaving space which led to Hamilton going off track. Which may be to say: the inside driver in an alongside-situation must allow a car to remain within the track boundaries until no longer beside.

Vettel's penalty was for not rejoining safely which, in that case, requires space to be left. There is no requirement to "leave space" on the exit of a corner when you're overtaking someone and you're on the racing line. If someone tries to hang it out around the outside, they're going to run out of road fairly quickly.

As pointed out by one of the pundits, the large expanse of tarmac on the outside of corners encourages drivers to hang it out around the outside and hope to get the other guy a penalty. If there had been gravel or a wall on the outside of that corner, Leclerc wouldn't have tried to go around the outside, he'd have tried the cut back.

Basically, if you drive in to a diminshing gap when both cars are legally racing (i.e. one hasn't just gone off the track and is rejoining), then you're the one who will lose out whether that be, a) a dive up the inside when the other is turning in, b) or going around the outside and running out of road.

[Just_a_fan]

It was stupid the first time, even more so the second time. I’ll give credit to Leclerc for having the balls to keep his foot planted on both occasions and battling back the position once, but it was always going to be a futile attempt.

You see, you mention his previous lap, so it's not always futile.

PS, it seems that Ferrari had much better traction when NOT hitting the apex, so outside trajectory could have been benefitial: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27912&start=1410#p844914

Max mentioned in interview that there is a "crest" on the inside which leads to understeer which also presumably doesn't help traction either. A number of drivers were taking a wide line through that corner all weekend to avoid this issue.