2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

[Shrieker]

Lec turned in causing the contact

First let's watch this. Notice how Verstappen doesn't turn his wheel as much as he did the previous lap.

Second, have a look here. This is but half a moment before contact. Notice the space inside the yellow circle ? Notice where Verstappen's nose is roughly pointed towards ? "Leclerc turned in on him!" doesn't cut it here, sorry. Especially when we have the previous lap to compare with, which makes it an open and shut case. Red Bull's home race, 100k+ Dutch fans, Honda's first win in the hybrid era are what prevented a penalty for Max.

[TAG]

Explanations of the VER LEC ruling in this thread still consist of:
-similar events from history
-feeling/intuition
-deference to stewards

Still no one is able to cite the sporting regulations. Its a pdf freely available. Might have to take a crack at it.

Or ask for the Canada thread to be unlocked.

[rogazilla]

This has to be one of the most exciting race in Sunny weather in a long time. Max put on a show and some good old fashion racing (which still exist in other series). There are a lot of actions on track! McLaren's racing form, wish they showed more of Sainz's second stint!

[Maplesoup]

Lec turned in causing the contact

First let's watch this. Notice how Verstappen doesn't turn his wheel as much as he did the previous lap.

Second, have a look here. This is but half a moment before contact. Notice the space inside the yellow circle ? Notice where Verstappen's nose is roughly pointed towards ? "Leclerc turned in on him!" doesn't cut it here, sorry. Especially when we have the previous lap to compare with, which makes it an open and shut case. Red Bull's home race, 100k+ Dutch fans, Honda's first win in the hybrid era are what prevented a penalty for Max.

Decision is made, ferrari aren't appealing it. No need for anymore opinions on the matter

This thread should probably just get locked now unless we are going to talk about something other than Leclerc vs Max

[sosic2121]

Regarding leaving a car's width: why was VET in Canada different than VER in Austria? For one: VET was on defence and slower than the other car--VER was on offence and faster. Does that matter? Does anyone know how the rules specifically apply in both circumstances?

Still on about Canada?

Yes, the stewards do and that's what they're there to do and make a decision with all of the evidence at their disposal. Been doing a pretty good job of it lately.

fantastic job, since 2016

[rogazilla]

First let's watch this. Notice how Verstappen doesn't turn his wheel as much as he did the previous lap.

Second, have a look here. This is but half a moment before contact. Notice the space inside the yellow circle ? Notice where Verstappen's nose is roughly pointed towards ? "Leclerc turned in on him!" doesn't cut it here, sorry. Especially when we have the previous lap to compare with, which makes it an open and shut case. Red Bull's home race, 100k+ Dutch fans, Honda's first win in the hybrid era are what prevented a penalty for Max.

I like the video! Look at the video and pause it at the moment of the picture that you are showing. Yes the nose cone is pointing towards the edge but Max' steering wheel is hard right and the wheel is pointing at the racing line. They went through the apex side by side and Max has the racing line after the apex. It is just a racing incident. Lec's trajectory was going to be off track and he would have to correct to be back on Racing line which Max is already there.

[Shrieker]

I like the video! Look at the video and pause it at the moment of the picture that you are showing. Yes the nose cone is pointing towards the edge but Max' steering wheel is hard right and the wheel is pointing at the racing line. They went through the apex side by side and Max has the racing line after the apex. It is just a racing incident. Lec's trajectory was going to be off track and he would have to correct to be back on Racing line which Max is already there.

If Lec had tried harder to avoid a contact, Max would've pushed him out of the road mere meters later. If you keep on watching it's clear he leaves no space for another car whatsoever on the outside. As things stand, he just barged into him and threw him out.

Decision is made, ferrari aren't appealing it. No need for anymore opinions on the matter

This thread should probably just get locked now unless we are going to talk about something other than Leclerc vs Max

Ferrari probably didn't appeal, because it would be inconsistent with their previously expressed desire that the winner should be the one who crossed the finish line first on the track.

[rogazilla]

...
If Lec had tried harder to avoid a contact, Max would've pushed him out of the road mere meters later. If you keep on watching it's clear he leaves no space for another car whatsoever on the outside. As things stand, he just barged into him and threw him out.
...

That's where I disagree with many about leaving space. If you are on the racing line, why do you have to concede the space and compromise your drive? It is different from a dive bomb where there is no hope to get back on the racing line but to bump the other driver.

[AMG.Tzan]

Why on earth did Sainz lose 10 secs to Gasly in the end? What an amazing drive from him...from 19th to almost behind his teammate!
And why was Hamilton so slow after his first pit stop? Was his floor damaged?

[rogazilla]

Sainz broke his front wing.

Ham also had FW damage that they replaced it during the first stop. He straddled the sausace curb at turn one multiple times, I'd be surprised if his floor isn't damaged but no idea on that one. He say that he couldn't turn in and keep running over the curbs.

[roon]

Lec turned in causing the contact

First let's watch this. Notice how Verstappen doesn't turn his wheel as much as he did the previous lap.

Second, have a look here. This is but half a moment before contact. Notice the space inside the yellow circle ? Notice where Verstappen's nose is roughly pointed towards ? "Leclerc turned in on him!" doesn't cut it here, sorry. Especially when we have the previous lap to compare with, which makes it an open and shut case. Red Bull's home race, 100k+ Dutch fans, Honda's first win in the hybrid era are what prevented a penalty for Max.

Nice video, thanks for that. I don't see a turn in from LeClerc, although he starts a little wider on lap 69 than he did on lap 68. Verstappen's move wasn't exactly a dive bomb though, either. He held his line well in both instances.

[aran.vtec]

This has to be one of the most exciting race in Sunny weather in a long time. Max put on a show and some good old fashion racing (which still exist in other series). There are a lot of actions on track! McLaren's racing form, wish they showed more of Sainz's second stint!

Iv said this before somewhere on another post , Remove Merc from the race and look behind from 3rd-20th and the racing is very good just not always covered! Drivers fighting over 3rd just isn't that exciting as them fighting for 1st, The rest of the field all having a shot at 3rd in some races

[marvin78]

This has to be one of the most exciting race in Sunny weather in a long time. Max put on a show and some good old fashion racing (which still exist in other series). There are a lot of actions on track! McLaren's racing form, wish they showed more of Sainz's second stint!

Iv said this before somewhere on another post , Remove Merc from the race and look behind from 3rd-20th and the racing is very good just not always covered! Drivers fighting over 3rd just isn't that exciting as them fighting for 1st, The rest of the field all having a shot at 3rd in some races

And you can see that in Vettel overtaking Hamilton or nearly getting Bottas in the end. In another race we only would talk about that.

[foxmulder_ms]

It is not a big deal for me but still, Vestappen was the responsible party for the contact. He waits on the curve and once he is sure there is not space left for leclerc then he starts turning. So, it was intentional and Ves's making. this goes against leaving one car space during the turn so I think he should have penelized and only reason why he was not is the last week That simple really.

[foxmulder_ms]

...
If Lec had tried harder to avoid a contact, Max would've pushed him out of the road mere meters later. If you keep on watching it's clear he leaves no space for another car whatsoever on the outside. As things stand, he just barged into him and threw him out.
...

That's where I disagree with many about leaving space. If you are on the racing line, why do you have to concede the space and compromise your drive? It is different from a dive bomb where there is no hope to get back on the racing line but to bump the other driver.

Simple.. there is a rule saying if a car is alongside, you have to leave one car space. He would get penalized if last week didn't happen.