2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

[Just_a_fan]

b) Overtaking, according to the
circumstances, may be carried out on either
the right or the left.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track
without justifiable reason.
More than one change of direction to defend
a position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing
line, having earlier defended his position offline, should leave at least one car width
between his own car and the edge of the
track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other
abnormal change of direction, are strictly
prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of
any of the above offences will be reported to
the Stewards.

I dunno Just_a_fan, can you help me interpret what is written in bold?

I've changed the bold to another bit. This is key, to me at least, to this rule and its application. The room has to be left "on the approach to the corner".

[Godius]

Leclerc turning into Verstappen kind of reminded me of the Schumacher v. Villeneuve incident @Jerez 1997. Although the situation was a bit different but Schumacher and Leclerc both wanted to put off the passing car because they were afraid to lose the race/championship. It's feels like unsportsmanlike conduct but you can't 100% prove it.

[sosic2121]

"However, both car 33 and car 16 proceeded to negotiate the corner alongside each
other but there was clearly insufficient space for both cars to do so. "
Such a shame stewards haven't actually watched the race, otherwise they might have seen there was "sufficient space" just a lap before, when Leclerc showed us some real racing.
Even The dutch brute might have learned something there.

I'm sure the stewards have watched the incident many more times than you, and have vastly more angles, and data to look at as well.

I guess they are blind then.

[Just_a_fan]

My issue is with him then turning in to Leclerc to hit him. If you watch the video from Max's car you can clearly see him turn in to Leclerc even as Max barely had two wheels on the track. That was pointless, unnecessary and dangerous, and it was typical Max.

Er, which video did you watch? Max keeps right hand lock applied through the whole corner. The lock is unwound a bit as he passes the notional apex, as is normal when taking a corner, but at no point does he "turn in to Leclerc".

[sosic2121]

"More than one change of direction to defend
a position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing
line, having earlier defended his position offline, should leave at least one car width
between his own car and the edge of the
track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other
abnormal change of direction, are strictly
prohibited."

strictly prohibited my a*s!
it's just incredible how many times max broke these rules and got away with.

[TwanV]

Since this is F1Technical and not F1Technicalities and now the matter is more or less settled I humbly suggest to move the discussions to other aspects as this race really spoke in terms of weaknesses and strengths of the different cars.. What I would like to better understand is the reason behind the apparent fuel efficiency advantage that Honda carried while it is generally perceived to also have a power deficit. Could it be something as simple as gearing ratios?

[z.topoln]

Watched the race on tv today...

They showed so little of action, i feel bad for tv viewers. Tv showed what, 1 sainz overtake? Sainz drove like crazy, made 10+ overtakes and had hell of a pace. With better tv director, he would be driver of the day easily.

On tv clash between ver and lec looked less hard than live, he really really punted him hard.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[dans79]

"More than one change of direction to defend
a position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing
line, having earlier defended his position offline, should leave at least one car width
between his own car and the edge of the
track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other
abnormal change of direction, are strictly
prohibited."

strictly prohibited my a*s!
it's just incredible how many times max broke these rules and got away with.

All of the above applies to the defending driver only. Max did not become the defending driver until he was completely in front of Charles!

[jz11]

b) Overtaking, according to the
circumstances, may be carried out on either
the right or the left.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track
without justifiable reason.
More than one change of direction to defend
a position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing
line, having earlier defended his position offline, should leave at least one car width
between his own car and the edge of the
track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other
abnormal change of direction, are strictly
prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of
any of the above offences will be reported to
the Stewards.

I dunno Just_a_fan, can you help me interpret what is written in bold?

I've changed the bold to another bit. This is key, to me at least, to this rule and its application. The room has to be left "on the approach to the corner".

do you see the "." doesn't it mean the end of the thought? English being my 3rd language, I somehow feel that the "However" is pointed about the situation in general including both or more drivers involved, and the whole paragraph doesn't refer to the defender or overtaker either, it has sentences that guide both, so I see nothing more than selective reading from your part applying this rule to absolve Max from any wrong doing

I always thought the "you must always leave space" to come from the time when if you did what Max did here, the other guy would have had 50/50 chance of doing acrobatics with his car in the gravel/barrier, with high chance of not walking away after coming to a stop, now, with all the safe run off areas and other safety improvements, drivers must feel like they drive an armored cars, hence this "unwritten" rule has lost some meaning

[NathanOlder]

I dunno Just_a_fan, can you help me interpret what is written in bold?

I'm just pulling your leg, as I said earlier, I smell politics all over this decision, I don't like or agree with it, just have to live with it

The part written in bold is about the Defending driver, not the one attempting an overtake.

Max was defending, he had a nose ahead before the contact.

[NathanOlder]

My issue is with him then turning in to Leclerc to hit him. If you watch the video from Max's car you can clearly see him turn in to Leclerc even as Max barely had two wheels on the track. That was pointless, unnecessary and dangerous, and it was typical Max.

Er, which video did you watch? Max keeps right hand lock applied through the whole corner. The lock is unwound a bit as he passes the notional apex, as is normal when taking a corner, but at no point does he "turn in to Leclerc".

There's no need to unwind the lock while side by side though is there. That makes it a deliberate move to push someone off. aka crowd another driver out. He had no oversteer so can't use that excuse, and he clearly had the tyres and car to stay tighter and inside Charles, as demonstrated a lap earlier.

[santos]

5 second penalty for Vettel, for forcing another driver off the track.

Source?

It was just a remind of why was vettel punished. FIA now says that it's like comparing apple and oranges. Well you can compare them and it makes sense.

[turbof1]

I dunno Just_a_fan, can you help me interpret what is written in bold?

I'm just pulling your leg, as I said earlier, I smell politics all over this decision, I don't like or agree with it, just have to live with it

The part written in bold is about the Defending driver, not the one attempting an overtake.

Hmm, this is where interpretation is playing a role. It is mentioned in a separate paragraph then the one before it, where indeed they are talking about the defending driver. But, it is a separate paragraph. So there is equally a case to be made this counts for both the attacking and the defending driver.

I think it comes down to "deliberately crowding a car beyond the race track". One could argue Verstappen just took a normal line throughout the corner without steering input that would suggest a deliberate act of crowing Leclerc off.

[epo]

My issue is with him then turning in to Leclerc to hit him. If you watch the video from Max's car you can clearly see him turn in to Leclerc even as Max barely had two wheels on the track. That was pointless, unnecessary and dangerous, and it was typical Max.

Er, which video did you watch? Max keeps right hand lock applied through the whole corner. The lock is unwound a bit as he passes the notional apex, as is normal when taking a corner, but at no point does he "turn in to Leclerc".

There's no need to unwind the lock while side by side though is there. That makes it a deliberate move to push someone off. aka crowd another driver out. He had no oversteer so can't use that excuse, and he clearly had the tyres and car to stay tighter and inside Charles, as demonstrated a lap earlier.

That is what YOU think.
Charles knew he had no chance so he threw the door open and hoped Max made this move so he could moan oh he pushed me off the track. He could just have backed off because he simply lost it. He is a smart defender but his trick didn't work today which is good for the sport.

[hape]

@epo
So you agree Max pushed Leclerc off the track. What you basically say is that Max was fooled by Charles. According to the rules Max should have been punished which he was not.
The FIA is a total mess in this. First of all they do not have the proper rules for “letting them fight” and secondly they do not follow their OWN rules because everybody wants to see some proper racing.