henry wrote: ↑01 Jul 2019, 22:01
dans79 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2019, 21:24
henry wrote: ↑01 Jul 2019, 21:07
If that were the case then in the circumstance that they left the corner side by side with Max a little in front Max could, under the rule being discussed, legitimately edge Charles to the side of the track.
If you are the outside you are always going to get pushed off, just by the physics of the issue. If you are on the inside you will have a shallower entry into the turn and thus are going to go wide on exit. This why you see the out side defending drive turn in behind the driver attempting the pass so they can try and get the power down early and re-take the pass.
Lewis and Nico in Bahrain 2014 is the example that jumps to mind first. Each time Lewis gets Nico to take a very tight and compromised entry to turn 1, so that he could then cut inside and get the power down sooner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_GWdS5RP0Q
henry wrote: ↑01 Jul 2019, 21:07
I’m not criticising you, your interpretation is as valid as any. The rules are so shoddily written that they only cover a very limited set of circumstances with any sort of precision. You’d think that after nearly 70 years they’d do better than that.
Personally I think the rules are written well enough.
I'm not criticizing you or anyone else here, but I think the modern F1 fan is the problem. The modern fan thinks their should be a specific black and white super dumbded down rule for everything. They think the stewards, the FIA, and everyone else is biased against their driver or team!
Physics has NOTHING to do with it. It’s a choice of the driver on the inside line where they position their car.
The Hamilton/Rosberg incident was also an example where this interpretation of the rules prevented good racing. Had Hamilton not crowded Rosberg off we would have seen the spectacle of them RACING side by side to the next corner, where Hamilton would also have the inside line, and maybe beyond.
The rules as being interpreted encourage one shot overtakes, dive down the inside pass or crash.
I’m not a modern fan, I started following F1 in the 60s. I don’t care particularly for any team or driver. I’m interested in the technicalities of the sport, and as a piece of technical writing the rules are rubbish. They fail to define many of the terms involved and don’t cover the generality of circumstances involved in racing but instead focus on a few specific instances.
This has left the “rules” to be set by the players. As always the players keep pushing at their rules until there is a sudden decision to rein one in. Weaving on the straights, moving under braking etc.
When I started watching they raced between the kerbs not over and beyond them and in the main they didn’t force opponents over the kerbs and off the track, injury or worse was the consequence. Now the consequences are different and the rules should have been carefully written to encourage racing given the changing circumstances. In my opinion they haven’t been.
Oh and you didn’t answer my specific point about Max pushing Charles off on the straight under the interpretation you offered of a “completed overtake”.
So if I read you right... you are suggesting this is a modern day block pass... except due to runoff the block pass can be achieved by being merely parallel to the other racer prior to apex? The inside racer gets to use track limits to achieve the block rather than having to leave space if another racer is parallel to them? I do believe this rule strips the fans of 'more racing' but I don't know that I want a rule either as I can't imagine how it would be written to not create more fiasco. How would a rule go? If a racer is alongside you then your line must consider a faux wall at track out for purposes of redefining your line giving space for the other racer?
In the case of this race and this pass I think Charles could have predicted the dive bomb approach of Max and squared up the turn with some early braking thus giving him the inside line and us the chance for another w2w encounter next turn. Or better yet, keep that inside line, brake way late, knowing max will be on the outside, and understeer into the apex and let Max decide how the line looks over the kerb, force his style of adversity on him.
