2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

One team is trying to avoid as many penalties as possible and start saving tires, engine, and car, the moment they get to best of the rest position in the race and the other team wants risks to be taken, bring new specs as soon as possible and as long new specs gives performance they don't mind the penalties.
Its perfectly logical for redbull to be pushing the engines a lot more, since they are not actually have to make it last 6-7 races.Another spec will come in the mean while, Plus they don't have nothing to lose since they are not threaten to lose 3rd potition by anyone. They can only gain by taking risks, or pushing Honda to develop faster.
I also believe that atm, Renault engine is slightly ahead of Honda engine on current specs , both in qualification and the race.
But that can easily change on future specs.

And yet it's the red bull currently without engine penalties or engine related DNFs . Verstappen completely destroyed midfield in france during the race (60s to sainz at the end = more than 1s per lap) when they were within thousands to him in qualifying.

In austria honda seemed to be an easy match for the renault in qualifying on the straights. It was mentioned a couple of times they improved their software coming into this weekend that allowed for more power and it showed. Problem remains the ferrari engine which is still too far away and on a whole different level when they turn in up to maximum. That's compared to both renault and honda, and even mercedes to a lesser degree.

I don't think your comments prove anything with regards to the power of the Honda PU. RBR fast lap times were all coming from the speed they were carrying in corners. Not the acceleration out of the corner. As was seen by LeClerc repassing Max on that first pass attempt. Nor do I believe you can point to anyone thing that would prouve that the Renault PU is more powerful. So best stop the conjecture.

As a McLaren fan I think the PU is good enough to win with.

[Jambier]

One team is trying to avoid as many penalties as possible and start saving tires, engine, and car, the moment they get to best of the rest position in the race and the other team wants risks to be taken, bring new specs as soon as possible and as long new specs gives performance they don't mind the penalties.
Its perfectly logical for redbull to be pushing the engines a lot more, since they are not actually have to make it last 6-7 races.Another spec will come in the mean while, Plus they don't have nothing to lose since they are not threaten to lose 3rd potition by anyone. They can only gain by taking risks, or pushing Honda to develop faster.
I also believe that atm, Renault engine is slightly ahead of Honda engine on current specs , both in qualification and the race.
But that can easily change on future specs.

And yet it's the red bull currently without engine penalties or engine related DNFs . Verstappen completely destroyed midfield in france during the race (60s to sainz at the end = more than 1s per lap) when they were within thousands to him in qualifying.

In austria honda seemed to be an easy match for the renault in qualifying on the straights. It was mentioned a couple of times they improved their software coming into this weekend that allowed for more power and it showed. Problem remains the ferrari engine which is still too far away and on a whole different level when they turn in up to maximum. That's compared to both renault and honda, and even mercedes to a lesser degree.

I don't think your comments prove anything with regards to the power of the Honda PU. RBR fast lap times were all coming from the speed they were carrying in corners. Not the acceleration out of the corner. As was seen by LeClerc repassing Max on that first pass attempt. Nor do I believe you can point to anyone thing that would prouve that the Renault PU is more powerful. So best stop the conjecture.

As a McLaren fan I think the PU is good enough to win with.

I think there is many delusion about the Honda engine. It has made great progress, but still is the weaker engine.

Anyway, McLaren has an engine good enough to win races, and they are progressing, so let's hope they can close the gap with the 3 top teams soon

I'm very upbeat with Seidl and the general feeling of the team right now

[Bill]

Delusions?McLaren left Honda to get back to winning ways because it was being held back,well on Sunday they got lapped by that gp2 engine.really it doesn't matter what your opinion is the proof is in the pudding.Honda are the 1 of the 2 winners this season.

[Andres125sx]

Delusions?McLaren left Honda to get back to winning ways because it was being held back,well on Sunday they got lapped by that gp2 engine.really it doesn't matter what your opinion is the proof is in the pudding.Honda are the 1 of the 2 winners this season.

The GP2 engine was the 2016-2017 unit, not this season one, and it was btw.

According to your reasoning, Mercedes is the best PU by far as they won all but last race, but reality is the whole paddock think Ferrari has an edge in the PU. Even so, they didn´t win a single race yet while Honda did. Will you claim Honda PU is faster than Ferrari PU?.

You can´t say Honda is faster than Renault because of RBR victory, in F1 PU is just one more parameter, and far from the most important. DF and tire managment play a bigger role than PU for example.

I think Honda and Renault are pretty even now, probably at some tracks Renault will perform better, while at some others it will be Honda

[bauc]

Why is HONDA back in this thread? Please MOVE ON! JUST MOVE ON! Honda PU now after 6 years of development is good to win and that is GREAT for EVERYONE, its what F1 needs more competition.... just MOVE ON people, please!

[Xero]

Delusions?McLaren left Honda to get back to winning ways because it was being held back,well on Sunday they got lapped by that gp2 engine.really it doesn't matter what your opinion is the proof is in the pudding.Honda are the 1 of the 2 winners this season.

McLaren left Honda because the relationship was damaged from the early troubles. During their final year together the progress from Honda was easy for everyone to see! Your "proof" of Honda having a better PU than Renault right now because Red Bull won a race also "doesn't matter", as that's merely an opinion too. Don't assume only yours is valid.

I'm with bauc on this, people really need to get over the whole McLaren/Honda saga. It's done with, most people don't care anymore, and it's beyond the point of being boring and repetitive. Both have moved on and are improving, happy days!

[BrunoH]

im very happy with Mclaren, at pre-season looked like they wold be the 3rd best team, they are 4 best, but solid 4 best, so hope they make a race this year that they are on podium .

regarding all this talk about honda in this tread, maybe its because Mclaren used to cook the honda engine and hence why now its capable of running hotter than the other pu´s hahhahahahahahahaa

[diffuser]

Delusions?McLaren left Honda to get back to winning ways because it was being held back,well on Sunday they got lapped by that gp2 engine.really it doesn't matter what your opinion is the proof is in the pudding.Honda are the 1 of the 2 winners this season.

Except that when you look at 2018 season RBR was with the Renault PU ...they had won 3 races. So with Honda technically the are -2 wins.

Anyways like I said. We don't have the tool to compare. So stop the conjecture.

[SmallSoldier]

One team is trying to avoid as many penalties as possible and start saving tires, engine, and car, the moment they get to best of the rest position in the race and the other team wants risks to be taken, bring new specs as soon as possible and as long new specs gives performance they don't mind the penalties.
Its perfectly logical for redbull to be pushing the engines a lot more, since they are not actually have to make it last 6-7 races.Another spec will come in the mean while, Plus they don't have nothing to lose since they are not threaten to lose 3rd potition by anyone. They can only gain by taking risks, or pushing Honda to develop faster.
I also believe that atm, Renault engine is slightly ahead of Honda engine on current specs , both in qualification and the race.
But that can easily change on future specs.

And yet it's the red bull currently without engine penalties or engine related DNFs . Verstappen completely destroyed midfield in france during the race (60s to sainz at the end = more than 1s per lap) when they were within thousands to him in qualifying.

In austria honda seemed to be an easy match for the renault in qualifying on the straights. It was mentioned a couple of times they improved their software coming into this weekend that allowed for more power and it showed. Problem remains the ferrari engine which is still too far away and on a whole different level when they turn in up to maximum. That's compared to both renault and honda, and even mercedes to a lesser degree.

In regards to the DNF’s, that’s absolutely true... Although, with the exception of Carlos’ issue in Australia, I don’t think the team has had reliability issues per se... Now, if you change the engine every 2-3 races, the probability of having a DNF is reduced.

The mistake that everyone seems to make is to try and validate the engine “power” based on “race results”, where a lot of other variables are in play (strategy, tires, fuel saving, position on the grid, chassis, etc)... The fact that Carlos overtook half the field in Austria (even cars using DRS) doesn’t mean that the Renault engine is better than Mercedes and Ferrari.


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[kfrantzios]

Guys cmon. If we are going to do the Honda vs Renault thing again let's not limit ourselves. Let's do Akebono vs Brembo, Castrol vs Shell etc. Their relevance to performance is similar.

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[Espresso]

Similar thoughts here....engine supplier doesn't bring them luck.
But I think MCL is starting to detach itself from the midfield. Clearly positioning itself this season as 4th.

This season the MCL designteam hit the bullet. It's currently top notch and after some polishing I'd expect more improvements. Off course we want much more but that's a never ending story.
But they have (so painfull and visibly) hit the other limit.....the engine.

This slowly pushes them inevitably into the direction where they have to use the engine 'over the Renault designated limits' (as RBR used to do) to be able to challenge the Top 3.

[genarro]

I agree. Mclaren are now trying to make a bigger points delta to the other midfield teams and then they will have the confidence to push their whole package (engine and chassis) to the limit. But until then best of the rest will be our goal.

Do we have any new information on the new floor upgrade for Silverstone??

[SmallSoldier]

Similar thoughts here....engine supplier doesn't bring them luck.
But I think MCL is starting to detach itself from the midfield. Clearly positioning itself this season as 4th.

This season the MCL designteam hit the bullet. It's currently top notch and after some polishing I'd expect more improvements. Off course we want much more but that's a never ending story.
But they have (so painfull and visibly) hit the other limit.....the engine.

This slowly pushes them inevitably into the direction where they have to use the engine 'over the Renault designated limits' (as RBR used to do) to be able to challenge the Top 3.

When the time comes for that, I’m sure they will find a way to deal with it... But we aren’t there yet... There is a lot of gap from a “Car” perspective to the top that needs to be close first.


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[SmallSoldier]

I like where Seidl’s mentality is, he wants the team to take more risks and make mistakes if necessary... Expecting the team to take on and develop more “Adventurous and aggressive concepts and designs”.

From what is done at the factory to how they play their strategies in the race (Norris going from Softs to Mediums in Austria wasn’t the expected strategy when everyone else was going from Soft/Mediums to Hards).


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[diffuser]

Similar thoughts here....engine supplier doesn't bring them luck.
But I think MCL is starting to detach itself from the midfield. Clearly positioning itself this season as 4th.

This season the MCL designteam hit the bullet. It's currently top notch and after some polishing I'd expect more improvements. Off course we want much more but that's a never ending story.
But they have (so painfull and visibly) hit the other limit.....the engine.

This slowly pushes them inevitably into the direction where they have to use the engine 'over the Renault designated limits' (as RBR used to do) to be able to challenge the Top 3.

not sure what you mean by that. It isn't obvious to me.