2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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djones
djones
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Hi,

Does anybody know if the gate checks tickets to see who bought them?

I was tempted to buy some general admission tickets from ebay.... then got scared the names would be checked and I'd be refused entry.

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henry
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 14:23
Does the rule requiring torque to match the driver's demand not apply to the electric side of the PU? If it does, then all of these strategies are illegal.
No. Once they are into the region where they are using electrical power they can choose how much or little, even negative, of the electrical they use. If that were not the case they wouldn’t be able to switch off electrical power at the end of straights. Every time you see the rain light flash they are doing something other than what the driver is demanding.

This paper, https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch ... sAllowed=y has a good description of the mechanisms on pages 1 and 2. It contains this summary.

If the driver is not requesting full power, the control system must deliver the amount of power requested by the driver, and the energy management system can only decide how to split it between the ICE and the MGU-K. Conversely, if the driver is requesting maximum power, the regulations allow the energy management system to decide the amount of propulsive power to provide and the split between the actuators.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Thanks henry. That makes sense I suppose, although I'm surprised no one has found a way to make a TC-lite system with the loophole that driver demand and PU delivery don't have to match all the time.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 16:36
Thanks henry. That makes sense I suppose, although I'm surprised no one has found a way to make a TC-lite system with the loophole that driver demand and PU delivery don't have to match all the time.
Who says they haven’t?

It will be interesting to see if the rain light flashes at all on the entry to Copse. It would likely be very short probably only during turn in. It’s always nice to have something to watch out for.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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henry wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 16:11
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 14:23
Does the rule requiring torque to match the driver's demand not apply to the electric side of the PU? If it does, then all of these strategies are illegal.
No. Once they are into the region where they are using electrical power they can choose how much or little, even negative, of the electrical they use. If that were not the case they wouldn’t be able to switch off electrical power at the end of straights. Every time you see the rain light flash they are doing something other than what the driver is demanding.

This paper, https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch ... sAllowed=y has a good description of the mechanisms on pages 1 and 2. It contains this summary.

If the driver is not requesting full power, the control system must deliver the amount of power requested by the driver, and the energy management system can only decide how to split it between the ICE and the MGU-K. Conversely, if the driver is requesting maximum power, the regulations allow the energy management system to decide the amount of propulsive power to provide and the split between the actuators.
It had to be that way otherwise every time a driver de-rates the FIA would need to get involved.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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If the driver is not requesting full power, the control system must deliver the amount of power requested by the driver, and the energy management system can only decide how to split it between the ICE and the MGU-K. Conversely, if the driver is requesting maximum power, the regulations allow the energy management system to decide the amount of propulsive power to provide and the split between the actuators.
So when the pilot uses full throttle, is it the system that decides how much power to deliver?
It seems a possible backdoor for a legal antispin system. Do you agree?

erudite450
erudite450
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Joined: 14 Mar 2019, 13:50

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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ME4ME wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 15:29
Last year the PU performance gaps were plain nasty. Hamilton going through the field like the others weren't there. Hopefully Renaults and Hondas progress have reduced that deficiency somewhat.
That's nothing to do with the PU. The Haas, Force India, Williams and Sauber were - and still are - running Mercedes and Ferrari PUs. The Redbulls (Max and Danny Ric) always went through the field in a similar manner even though they were running the Renault PU. It's all about the downforce.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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djones wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 15:58
Hi,

Does anybody know if the gate checks tickets to see who bought them?

I was tempted to buy some general admission tickets from ebay.... then got scared the names would be checked and I'd be refused entry.
as far as I'm aware no they don't. I went 3 years ago. I bought 12 tickets for a group, we went up in 3 cars and met in the grand stand. So 8 of the group weren't with me. So effectively I bought the tickets and the tickets were all in my name. (Not sure if they even have a name on them)
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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Xwang wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 17:38
If the driver is not requesting full power, the control system must deliver the amount of power requested by the driver, and the energy management system can only decide how to split it between the ICE and the MGU-K. Conversely, if the driver is requesting maximum power, the regulations allow the energy management system to decide the amount of propulsive power to provide and the split between the actuators.
So when the pilot uses full throttle, is it the system that decides how much power to deliver?
It seems a possible backdoor for a legal antispin system. Do you agree?
Yes and no. The driver only asks for full power when they cease to be traction limited. However, in the grey area of transition from traction limited to not perhaps there’s an opportunity.

I think this is the case when they turn in to a flat out corner as the rear tyres transition from linear to linear plus lateral traction. But it’s only a hypothesis.

I watched last year’s pole lap for any steering wheel setting changes but I didn’t see any, just bbal. It will give me something to watch for this year.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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henry wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 17:52
Xwang wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 17:38
If the driver is not requesting full power, the control system must deliver the amount of power requested by the driver, and the energy management system can only decide how to split it between the ICE and the MGU-K. Conversely, if the driver is requesting maximum power, the regulations allow the energy management system to decide the amount of propulsive power to provide and the split between the actuators.
So when the pilot uses full throttle, is it the system that decides how much power to deliver?
It seems a possible backdoor for a legal antispin system. Do you agree?
Yes and no. The driver only asks for full power when they cease to be traction limited. However, in the grey area of transition from traction limited to not perhaps there’s an opportunity.

I think this is the case when they turn in to a flat out corner as the rear tyres transition from linear to linear plus lateral traction. But it’s only a hypothesis.

I watched last year’s pole lap for any steering wheel setting changes but I didn’t see any, just bbal. It will give me something to watch for this year.
I mean that a smart team could develop the ERS/ECU so that when full throttle is applied it behaves like an antispin and then instruct their drivers to slam the throttle full open instead of limit it to control traction (that in this hypothetical case is controlled by the antispin).
I'm not saying that it is easy to do nor that it is feasible with the standard ecu and available data from sensors.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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henry wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 17:52
I watched last year’s pole lap for any steering wheel setting changes but I didn’t see any, just bbal. It will give me something to watch for this year.
Also BMIG if that's of interest. And something else exiting Luffield, you can see a '3' on the dash but no apparent hand movement with it. Maybe some button on the back of the steering wheel.

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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MtthsMlw wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 18:39
henry wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 17:52
I watched last year’s pole lap for any steering wheel setting changes but I didn’t see any, just bbal. It will give me something to watch for this year.
Also BMIG if that's of interest. And something else exiting Luffield, you can see a '3' on the dash but no apparent hand movement with it. Maybe some button on the back of the steering wheel.
Thanks I’ll watch again
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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No third DRS zone through turn 1 and 2 this year.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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MtthsMlw wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 21:01
No third DRS zone through turn 1 and 2 this year.
Any reason as to why? I thought it was very interesting last year to watch out for anyone daring to take T1 with drs open. Ultimately no one managed to do it (and probably wouldn't be able to this year with wider drs), but it was still a fun extra thing to look out for.

erudite450
erudite450
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Re: 2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

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Juzh wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 21:05
MtthsMlw wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 21:01
No third DRS zone through turn 1 and 2 this year.
Any reason as to why? I thought it was very interesting last year to watch out for anyone daring to take T1 with drs open. Ultimately no one managed to do it (and probably wouldn't be able to this year with wider drs), but it was still a fun extra thing to look out for.
I thought Verstappen did that in the Redbull?