2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

[TAG]

If we are to take Andrew Benson's word for it the decision was made before the race

"What Hamilton did next was going to win him the race, safety car or no safety car. He had already decided before the grand prix started that he was going to try to go for a one-stop, knowing Bottas was doing two."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48984959

Peter Windsor said the same thing. Which proves the point, SC or not, Lewis was going to go with a one stopper because he knew he could. The best race for us as fans may have been if Bottas also went with a one stop on the hard compound. He's got a history of problems getting them back up to heat after a SC.

[izzy]

Verstappen did a slight move to the left then a slight move to the right, that might have contributed to Vettel making the mistake, not saying that it wasn't 100% Vettel's fault.

Seb feinted to the right, Max bought it and moved right opening a gap on his left, which Seb went for with a lot more speed, as Max knew after how they each went through Stowe. Max moved left to cover, closed off some of the gap, Seb tried to get out of it but it was too late.

So it was 100% Max, not Seb.

There was a gap, and just like in Baku Max closed it when it was too late. It all happened so fast Seb seems not to even realise now, or he's being political. But there it is. A space wider than Max's car, on his left. At this moment we can see Max's front wheels still pointing right a bit, the next frame they're pointing left

[sosic2121]

If you walk through this video frame by frame,

Seb said sorry to Max. Enough said. Moving on.

Almost like Seb knows they will be team mates next season

Are you saying Seb is going back to RB?
Does that means Fernando is coming back?
Although I would also be happy with Daniel

[Restomaniac]

turbo, I disagree about the safety car luck. I thought that too at the time, but even if there was no safety car, Hamilton's call to go one stop instead of two gave him the win. Bottas was always going to have to pit again and lose 20seconds on track. So even though Bottas would have been ahead after Hamilton's stop, Bottas had to stop again and Hamilton had only to stay within a few seconds of him to take the win after Bottas's second stop.

It was the choice of risking the one stop that won the race. That needed skill to make work - skill in keeping the first set of tyres alive longer, and then the skill to make the hards go longer than was predicted by Pirelli.

Hamilton made his luck and the safety car wasn't part of it.

Well, maybe. You have of course arguments in favour of that, the excellent average pace and lifespan Hamilton was somehow able to extract out of those tyres and the track position.

However, Bottas' strategy was screwed the moment the SC went out. We just can't know if Bottas had more pace to play with, when he would have went in and how quick he'd be closing the gap towards Hamilton after the second stop. Instead, he dropped behind Hamilton while without a SC he would have stayed in front after Hamilton's change of tyres. We can argue that Bottas would then have stopped earlier and probably went for the hard tyres instead (can anyone confirm he still had a set of those left?). He definitely would have been faster, but we don't know by how much because again the SC threw that out of the window, instead having to settle for an attempt for the fastest lap (and I think he royally screwed that one up).

In the end, we don't really know how the race would have played out. There's certainly a case to be made for Hamilton winning the race anyway. However, nobody will disagree it at the very least gave him a healthy margin.

It is basically luck. But you can argue if that luck played a role at all

Hamilton didn't have a set of new Mediums, Bottas did. As far as pace, you'd think that if Bottas was on a two stopper with the fastest compounds available to him he'd have pushed the tires not worrying about their life. It was Hamilton's decision to change strategy. Bottas was driving well, certainly well enough to keep Lewis behind, I think the decision to change to a one stopper was made by Lewis the minute he got confirmation that Bottas had put on a second set of Mediums. Lewis at that point knew he could make the one stop work, and did. SC or not, that race was over then and there.

Yep. The very second he went long and got to around 30 laps to go a 1 stopper should have been obvious to everyone else.
Do some folks really think that without the S/C Hamilton would stop again on a tyre that would run 30 laps when there was only 32 left thus giving Bottas back the lead? That’s silly talk.

I do think SKY have a question to answer here though as they were the ones banging on about luck/poor luck due to the S/C which then became the common view. In fact only Damon Hill saw the facts for what they were and his view was pretty much ignored.

The weight of evidence points to Hamilton playing a blinder.

I wonder if the reaction from a Bottas is that in his mind he knows Hamilton has seen him coming a little?

[nacho]

Hamilton deciding to go for a one-stopper before the race isn't very logical compared to the hard racing he did in the beginning to get past Bottas. Had he decided to one stop and known that Bottas is doing a two stopper, he could have easily just waited with a safe gap and won easily. Did they even have any info on hard tires because they had only one set for the weekend?

[Jolle]

Verstappen did a slight move to the left then a slight move to the right, that might have contributed to Vettel making the mistake, not saying that it wasn't 100% Vettel's fault.

Seb feinted to the right, Max bought it and moved right opening a gap on his left, which Seb went for with a lot more speed, as Max knew after how they each went through Stowe. Max moved left to cover, closed off some of the gap, Seb tried to get out of it but it was too late.

So it was 100% Max, not Seb.

There was a gap, and just like in Baku Max closed it when it was too late. It all happened so fast Seb seems not to even realise now, or he's being political. But there it is. A space wider than Max's car, on his left. At this moment we can see Max's front wheels still pointing right a bit, the next frame they're pointing left
https://66.media.tumblr.com/446454e435d ... 1_1280.pnj

You do know that the track tightens before that corner on the inside? Verstappen went straight, the gap disappeared because of the track getting smaller.

[izzy]

Verstappen did a slight move to the left then a slight move to the right, that might have contributed to Vettel making the mistake, not saying that it wasn't 100% Vettel's fault.

Seb feinted to the right, Max bought it and moved right opening a gap on his left, which Seb went for with a lot more speed, as Max knew after how they each went through Stowe. Max moved left to cover, closed off some of the gap, Seb tried to get out of it but it was too late.

So it was 100% Max, not Seb.

There was a gap, and just like in Baku Max closed it when it was too late. It all happened so fast Seb seems not to even realise now, or he's being political. But there it is. A space wider than Max's car, on his left. At this moment we can see Max's front wheels still pointing right a bit, the next frame they're pointing left
https://66.media.tumblr.com/446454e435d ... 1_1280.pnj

You do know that the track tightens before that corner on the inside? Verstappen went straight, the gap disappeared because of the track getting smaller.

the line is to the outside obviously, on the right, not directly towards the apex! But here's the next frame, with the white line nice and straight on the left and Max's front wheels now steering gently left and Seb's gap starting to disappear. It was very subtle

[Jolle]

Seb feinted to the right, Max bought it and moved right opening a gap on his left, which Seb went for with a lot more speed, as Max knew after how they each went through Stowe. Max moved left to cover, closed off some of the gap, Seb tried to get out of it but it was too late.

So it was 100% Max, not Seb.

There was a gap, and just like in Baku Max closed it when it was too late. It all happened so fast Seb seems not to even realise now, or he's being political. But there it is. A space wider than Max's car, on his left. At this moment we can see Max's front wheels still pointing right a bit, the next frame they're pointing left
https://66.media.tumblr.com/446454e435d ... 1_1280.pnj

You do know that the track tightens before that corner on the inside? Verstappen went straight, the gap disappeared because of the track getting smaller.

the line is to the outside obviously, on the right, not directly towards the apex! But here's the next frame, with the white line nice and straight on the left and Max's front wheels now steering gently left and Seb's gap starting to disappear. It was very subtle
https://66.media.tumblr.com/2e990141891 ... 1_1280.png

Go and look at that piece of track, it's not a straight, its a slight bent with narrowing on both sides.

Vettel is showing a new level of incompetence here, where his main rivals (and teammate) put on a glorious show of race craft, he does not. At least this time he directly said it was his fault and maybe he will be doing some reflection and actually learning from his mistakes.

[dans79]

I do think SKY have a question to answer here though as they were the ones banging on about luck/poor luck due to the S/C which then became the common view. In fact only Damon Hill saw the facts for what they were and his view was pretty much ignored.

That's because Crofty is a drama queen, he is always trying to make everything as dramatic as possible. Honestly, I would pay to have him fired!

[Juzh]

Verstappen's onboard was absolutely thrilling to watch, a real shame for that crash.

Hey man can you do lewis' fastest lap onboard with telemetry?

maybe in a few days, i'm working on some other things first. he was flat trough copse, i can tell you that.

[Juzh]

gasly overtaking vettel

https://streamable.com/iabz5

[jz11]

I do think SKY have a question to answer here though as they were the ones banging on about luck/poor luck due to the S/C which then became the common view. In fact only Damon Hill saw the facts for what they were and his view was pretty much ignored.

That's because Crofty is a drama queen, he is always trying to make everything as dramatic as possible. Honestly, I would pay to have him fired!

it isn't just him, almost all of them do it, trying to add excitement to everything whether it is needed or not

interviews have got to a new level of bad as well, almost all the time interviewer is trying to put words into the mouth of the person being interviewed, expecting them to agree with what they want to hear, instead of actually getting an opinion

[rogazilla]

...
the line is to the outside obviously, on the right, not directly towards the apex! But here's the next frame, with the white line nice and straight on the left and Max's front wheels now steering gently left and Seb's gap starting to disappear. It was very subtle
https://66.media.tumblr.com/2e990141891 ... 1_1280.png

As many have mentioned and I know a birdeye view of this piece of track was posted prior. The track itself narrows. The white line on both side are not parallel all the way to the corner. Max is going straight but the white line converge towards his car.

[izzy]

Go and look at that piece of track, it's not a straight, its a slight bent with narrowing on both sides.

Vettel is showing a new level of incompetence here, where his main rivals (and teammate) put on a glorious show of race craft, he does not. At least this time he directly said it was his fault and maybe he will be doing some reflection and actually learning from his mistakes.

They're past the bend by then and the track isn't really narrowing. Check out the video, like . At 33s they're going under the gantry, there's the gap opening as Max goes to the right, Seb goes for it and Max closes it. Slow it down to .25 speed it's quite clear

Seb was being quite aggressive as he often is, but he had a gap to go for. You can't say that's not a gap. What made it not quite so obvious was how he gave it up and drove square into the back of Max, exactly like Ric did, to avoid colliding wheel to wheel which is a takeoff scenario

[Just_a_fan]

So it was 100% Max, not Seb.

Seb says otherwise. So maybe your percentage figure there is a little inaccurate...

There's a good picture earlier in the thread that shows that Max basically went in a straight line and that Seb was the one moving.