Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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OO7
OO7
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
13 Jul 2019, 20:16
I've spent way too much time looking at engine covers this AM ( :lol: ), but you've been polite and very thorough in your continuing defense of your position.

I do now see the very subtle difference in the shape of fin's base contour (on HAM's car in the photos you marked with the red line).

When I started to go back to look at engine covers from past races, I noticed that the number, shape, and location of access ports in the cover change quite frequently.

What I'm wondering is:

a) Was this really a new specification?

b) Why, if it is related to a cooling improvement, would both cars not be running it at some point during the weekend? Was it never on Bottas' car?

Almost every time Merc has run a brand new update, we see each car give it a shot at some point. When already introduced parts that have been tested earlier in the season are being evaluated for a specific circuit (i.e., different rear wing specs), I've seen just one car run the parts.
Thanks zibby :)

I know what you mean, my eyes were almost glazed over from playing spot the difference. :lol:

a) It looks like it was a new specification, because I don't recall ever seeing it used before.

b) They may have just been evaluating it and discovered it needed more work, or it may be a solution for hotter races.

Here are a couple more picture showing the differences:
Image
Image
Last edited by OO7 on 14 Jul 2019, 20:23, edited 1 time in total.

OO7
OO7
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 06:52
Nice. Blaze and roon, does this engine cover have the different shape you were trying to point out to me?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_WVoOQXUAAVAze.jpg
Yes that's the newer engine cover with the 'S' curve in it.

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MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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I guess these changes have to do with that ERS(?) radiator.
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zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Blaze1 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 13:50
zibby43 wrote:
13 Jul 2019, 20:16
I've spent way too much time looking at engine covers this AM ( :lol: ), but you've been polite and very thorough in your continuing defense of your position.

I do now see the very subtle difference in the shape of fin's base contour (on HAM's car in the photos you marked with the red line).

When I started to go back to look at engine covers from past races, I noticed that the number, shape, and location of access ports in the cover change quite frequently.

What I'm wondering is:

a) Was this really a new specification?

b) Why, if it is related to a cooling improvement, would both cars not be running it at some point during the weekend? Was it never on Bottas' car?

Almost every time Merc has run a brand new update, we see each car give it a shot at some point. When already introduced parts that have been tested earlier in the season are being evaluated for a specific circuit (i.e., different rear wing specs), I've seen just one car run the parts.
Thanks zibby :)

I know what you mean, my eyes were almost glazed over from playing spot the difference. :lol:

a) It looks like it was a new specification, because I don't recall ever seeing it used before.

b) They may have just been evaluating it and discovered it need more work, or it may be a solution for hotter races.

Here are a couple more picture showing the differences:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 300-62.jpg
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 336-58.jpg
Impressive discovery by you. I just found out yesterday that Hamilton took a new MGU-K this weekend.

Great spot by MtthsMlw re: the radiator change. Credit to roon as well for picking up on some interesting differences.

It seems like we're starting to piece together all the pieces of this puzzle in terms of why such an update would only appear on HAM's car (which was always the main source of my skepticism). As far as I'm aware of, we never saw it on BOT's car.

OO7
OO7
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 19:35
Impressive discovery by you. I just found out yesterday that Hamilton took a new MGU-K this weekend.

Great spot by MtthsMlw re: the radiator change. Credit to roon as well for picking up on some interesting differences.

It seems like we're starting to piece together all the pieces of this puzzle in terms of why such an update would only appear on HAM's car (which was always the main source of my skepticism). As far as I'm aware of, we never saw it on BOT's car.
If Lewis took a new MGU-K, I don't believe this is related to the new cooling solution, I say this because for qualification and the race both cars ran the older cooling package:
Image

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Blaze1 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 21:34
zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 19:35
Impressive discovery by you. I just found out yesterday that Hamilton took a new MGU-K this weekend.

Great spot by MtthsMlw re: the radiator change. Credit to roon as well for picking up on some interesting differences.

It seems like we're starting to piece together all the pieces of this puzzle in terms of why such an update would only appear on HAM's car (which was always the main source of my skepticism). As far as I'm aware of, we never saw it on BOT's car.
If Lewis took a new MGU-K, I don't believe this is related to the new cooling solution, I say this because for qualification and the race both cars ran the older cooling package:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 058-41.jpg
Now that's a great photo for comparison. So it all boils down to testing future cooling solutions for the future and ahead of the next big upgrade in Hockenhim?

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F1Krof
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Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 21:17

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:07
Blaze1 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 21:34
zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 19:35
Impressive discovery by you. I just found out yesterday that Hamilton took a new MGU-K this weekend.

Great spot by MtthsMlw re: the radiator change. Credit to roon as well for picking up on some interesting differences.

It seems like we're starting to piece together all the pieces of this puzzle in terms of why such an update would only appear on HAM's car (which was always the main source of my skepticism). As far as I'm aware of, we never saw it on BOT's car.
If Lewis took a new MGU-K, I don't believe this is related to the new cooling solution, I say this because for qualification and the race both cars ran the older cooling package:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 058-41.jpg
Now that's a great photo for comparison. So it all boils down to testing future cooling solutions for the future and ahead of the next big upgrade in Hockenhim?
I think I heard they will bring a cooling fix for Hockenheim not an aero upgrade.
Wroom wroom

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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F1Krof wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 00:13
zibby43 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 22:07
Blaze1 wrote:
14 Jul 2019, 21:34

If Lewis took a new MGU-K, I don't believe this is related to the new cooling solution, I say this because for qualification and the race both cars ran the older cooling package:
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 058-41.jpg
Now that's a great photo for comparison. So it all boils down to testing future cooling solutions for the future and ahead of the next big upgrade in Hockenhim?
I think I heard they will bring a cooling fix for Hockenheim not an aero upgrade.
Perhaps they’re related or they’re bringing both because a Merc engineer was quoted by AMuS as saying it will be visually obvious to everyone. Plus our source on the board indicated aero as well, if I remember correctly. We’ll see.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Merc removing cooling panels during the race for 2nd stint:

Image

Image

via @SomersF1

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 10:04
Merc removing cooling panels during the race for 2nd stint:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_dkIfuXoAAFXUv.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_dkIf2XsAAJZUX.jpg

via @SomersF1
Looks like a bit of the right (lower in the pictures) cover snapped off and stayed attached. There's a small triangular bit left on the car on that side.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Just_a_fan wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 10:44
zibby43 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 10:04
Merc removing cooling panels during the race for 2nd stint:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_dkIfuXoAAFXUv.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_dkIf2XsAAJZUX.jpg

via @SomersF1
Looks like a bit of the right (lower in the pictures) cover snapped off and stayed attached. There's a small triangular bit left on the car on that side.
Yep! You’re right. Pretty impressive they can make these adjustments during a 2-3s stop though.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Could they not have stepping motors to control this during the race? It surely would not be considered movable aero, even if embedded in its own shell so nothing protrudes.

In fact, They could probably find a glue that metes exactly the temperature they want them open, Oh they fell off :oops:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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humble sabot
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 10:33

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Don't think the FIA would look kindly on cars shedding parts all over the track intentionally.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Big Tea wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 22:02
It surely would not be considered movable aero, even if embedded in its own shell so nothing protrudes.
It would be moveable aero. Simple scenario: car is presented to scrutineering and the following questions are asked/answered.

1. Why is the car designed with small cooling apertures? - because big ones ruin the aero.
2. Why do you want to only have big openings when hot? - because having big ones all the time ruins the aero.
3. So you want to be able to modify the cooling openings on the fly because? - to help the aero.

No way they could claim moveable cooling ducts are non-aero devices.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Just_a_fan wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 00:45
Big Tea wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 22:02
It surely would not be considered movable aero, even if embedded in its own shell so nothing protrudes.
It would be moveable aero. Simple scenario: car is presented to scrutineering and the following questions are asked/answered.

1. Why is the car designed with small cooling apertures? - because big ones ruin the aero.
2. Why do you want to only have big openings when hot? - because having big ones all the time ruins the aero.
3. So you want to be able to modify the cooling openings on the fly because? - to help the aero.

No way they could claim moveable cooling ducts are non-aero devices.

Yeh, you are right of course.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.