2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

[Just_a_fan]

2008 Silverstone. That wasn't car. That was driver.

[Wynters]

Lots of good facts and observations so far but can we not go any further down the 'Just how great is Lewis Hamilton?' route, please? I'm fairly certain it's been discussed once (possibly twice) before and no one ever changes their mind.

[TAG]

To be fair he has had the very best car in the wet since 2014 and only to contend Rosberg and Bottas with, who are, lets say politely, not big on wet driving. If he had a Button next to him this stat would be very different. But as discussed before, this holds true for a lot of his stats if you deduct the Merc from it (2007-2013 stats).

His 2007-2013 stats are pretty good as well, to be fair. Button's Canada win was pretty sublime though.

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

I was there soaked down to the underwear. Hamilton and Alonso. I read a story not long ago about McLaren and how they got that win. Apparently their car allowed them to change suspension dampers easily and so they did during the last rain stoppage. They completely reconfigured Button's car and gave him pace to chase down a Red Bull in one of their prime dominant years. That was a Canada win that eluded Vettel come to think of it.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Look it up, I may be one or two off but he was on low 20’s wins before joing the most dominant team in the history of F1 (and perhaps sport in a wider context). Dont mistake it, Hamilton is an absolute top level driver, but without the Merc (so in end of 00’s competitiveness style grids) he would now be closing in on Senna’s number of wins and titles (a career cut short), not Schumachers. Still very impressive.

Oh, and Senna had 6 wins before joining McLaren and winning the title in the car that won every race that year bar 1.

Fun off-topic fact: In their two years as teammates, Prost had more points than Senna in both 1988 and 1989. Senna became WC in ‘88 because only your eleven best results counted.

Even more fun fact, when the McLaren was 1&2, Senna won 7 times, Prost only once. Senna had more wins over the 2 years and both seasons. And they had been dropping points in the championship since it's inception, best 11 out of 16 was nothing new.

[ENGINE TUNER]

His 2007-2013 stats are pretty good as well, to be fair. Button's Canada win was pretty sublime though.

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

I was there soaked down to the underwear. Hamilton and Alonso. I read a story not long ago about McLaren and how they got that win. Apparently their car allowed them to change suspension dampers easily and so they did during the last rain stoppage. They completely reconfigured Button's car and gave him pace to chase down a Red Bull in one of their prime dominant years. That was a Canada win that eluded Vettel come to think of it.

Interesting, never heard about them changing dampers, but I am pretty sure they were running less rear wing than RBR and so as the track dried out they were better optimized for the conditions. Plus of course Vettel bottling it YET AGAIN.

Front dampers or rear? Replaced or adjusted?

[drunkf1fan]

To be fair he has had the very best car in the wet since 2014 and only to contend Rosberg and Bottas with, who are, lets say politely, not big on wet driving. If he had a Button next to him this stat would be very different. But as discussed before, this holds true for a lot of his stats if you deduct the Merc from it (2007-2013 stats).

His 2007-2013 stats are pretty good as well, to be fair. Button's Canada win was pretty sublime though.

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

Genuinely always amazing to me that people act like it was a great drive, he caused to safety cars iirc, pitting around both, one near the end, taking out two guys who were plainly faster than him. Hamilton you could say hit Webber but he was obviously tight in the apex so didn't have much space to turn into it hard and Webber had loads of space on the outside. Either way it meant Hamilton got behind Button, within literally half a lap button was so slow that he lost places to Schumi and Hamilton, Hamilton was all over Schumacher then Schumi did the dirty and pushed him wide onto the grass at the hairpin which allowed Button back through. Despite a couple second gap Hamilton was all over him within a lap and as you say was clearly going to pass before Button cut across him giving him no where to go.

That race it was ridiculously obvious that Button was far slower than Hamilton. Only a lot of extreme luck caused primarily from two actual collisions he caused gave him the win.

For me it was bad drive for the most part with an amazing outcome and being on the right tire at the right point at the end, plus Vettel making mistakes.

It's funny because vettel actually went off track early in the race just before that Button Hamilton incident at the same place he went off this year in Canada... except even without a car there and in very wet conditions.... he didn't end up as wide as he did when he pushed Hamilton off track this year in the dry.

[ENGINE TUNER]

His 2007-2013 stats are pretty good as well, to be fair. Button's Canada win was pretty sublime though.

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

Genuinely always amazing to me that people act like it was a great drive, he caused to safety cars iirc, pitting around both, one near the end, taking out two guys who were plainly faster than him. Hamilton you could say hit Webber but he was obviously tight in the apex so didn't have much space to turn into it hard and Webber had loads of space on the outside. Either way it meant Hamilton got behind Button, within literally half a lap button was so slow that he lost places to Schumi and Hamilton, Hamilton was all over Schumacher then Schumi did the dirty and pushed him wide onto the grass at the hairpin which allowed Button back through. Despite a couple second gap Hamilton was all over him within a lap and as you say was clearly going to pass before Button cut across him giving him no where to go.

That race it was ridiculously obvious that Button was far slower than Hamilton. Only a lot of extreme luck caused primarily from two actual collisions he caused gave him the win.

For me it was bad drive for the most part with an amazing outcome and being on the right tire at the right point at the end, plus Vettel making mistakes.

It's funny because vettel actually went off track early in the race just before that Button Hamilton incident at the same place he went off this year in Canada... except even without a car there and in very wet conditions.... he didn't end up as wide as he did when he pushed Hamilton off track this year in the dry.

Excellent post, you explain it exactly as I remember it. I even went back to see how Vettel re entered the track that race.

[TAG]

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

I was there soaked down to the underwear. Hamilton and Alonso. I read a story not long ago about McLaren and how they got that win. Apparently their car allowed them to change suspension dampers easily and so they did during the last rain stoppage. They completely reconfigured Button's car and gave him pace to chase down a Red Bull in one of their prime dominant years. That was a Canada win that eluded Vettel come to think of it.

Interesting, never heard about them changing dampers, but I am pretty sure they were running less rear wing than RBR and so as the track dried out they were better optimized for the conditions. Plus of course Vettel bottling it YET AGAIN.

Front dampers or rear? Replaced or adjusted?

Don't remember where I saw it, just did some googling and I'm coming up empty. It may have been a McLaren thing instead of a Button thing, it may have been Whitmarsh or Lowe discussing what they did to the car during the red flag period and it was specifically because of the way they had implemented the suspension that they were able to replace the dampers front and rear from what I remember and that allowed him to make the most the conditions and maximize the the mechanical grip. Maybe someone else here has better luck with the search.

[NathanOlder]

That's one of those insane stats that you don't think about but... insane.

To be fair he has had the very best car in the wet since 2014 and only to contend Rosberg and Bottas with, who are, lets say politely, not big on wet driving. If he had a Button next to him this stat would be very different. But as discussed before, this holds true for a lot of his stats if you deduct the Merc from it (2007-2013 stats).

Thats like looking at Vettels stats after removing his RedBull years. Also yiu say Rosberg and Bottas are not big on wet weather driving, at least that means you are confirming that Lewis IS big on wet weather driving, so why keep saying its all the car when the sister car struggles.

[Mansell89]

Anyone expecting Ferrari to have a really decent weekend here?

Surely with the sheer amount of straight(s), they have to be closer to the front this weekend?

How much will that stadium section hurt them?

[Sieper]

Well, all but Hungary 2014 which he could have won from the pit lane if it weren't for a faulty cylinder at the end of the race.

Yes he is a great driver, as is (amongst many other feats) proven by his record against any opponent he went against in the same car. But merc has had a big power advantage since 2014 which they always used for driving with more downforce. That’s a big advantage to have in the rain.

So what stopped his teammate from accumulating a similarly impressive record?

A lack of Hamiltons talent. What part of me saying that did you not understand?

[Ringleheim]

Anyone expecting Ferrari to have a really decent weekend here?

Surely with the sheer amount of straight(s), they have to be closer to the front this weekend?

How much will that stadium section hurt them?

HuH? It's all stadium section these days.

The runs out into the forest were destroyed years ago.

[Morteza]

New MGU-Ks for five of the six Ferrari powered cars this weekend, while the two actual Ferraris get new Energy Stores. No penalties for any of these - all within their supply limits.

Via @thomasmaheronf1

[dodds_turbo]

Can't share a screenshot from Sky F1 but Magnusson is currently getting a good tow from Team Porsche, possibly finding a few tenths improvement on this lap!!

[MtthsMlw]

New MGU-Ks for five of the six Ferrari powered cars this weekend, while the two actual Ferraris get new Energy Stores. No penalties for any of these - all within their supply limits.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAZA_VIXkAABmDw.jpg
Via @thomasmaheronf1

Vettel got his second MGU-K in Silverstone already