2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

[yelistener]

Something about 2019 cars that just doesn't fit Hockenheim. Best 2019 S3 in quali is actually slower than 2018. You'd think with that that much downforce 2019 cars should at least win S3.

and are around 0.5s slower over the whole lap than on 2018. On Austria they struggled to match 2018 too. It's not just Hockenheim. The development on F1 is very poor compared to the one LMP1s used to have when there was competition there, meaning, 5s of improvement from one year to the other.

Austria is completely different. High temp and high altitude. And yet Ferrari and RB both managed to beat their 2018 quali laptime. Only Mercedes suffered.

At Hockenheim however, all top 3 teams failed to match 2018 quali, and temp is not that hot.

[SmallSoldier]

Something about 2019 cars that just doesn't fit Hockenheim. Best 2019 S3 in quali is actually slower than 2018. You'd think with that that much downforce 2019 cars should at least win S3.

and are around 0.5s slower over the whole lap than on 2018. On Austria they struggled to match 2018 too. It's not just Hockenheim. The development on F1 is very poor compared to the one LMP1s used to have when there was competition there, meaning, 5s of improvement from one year to the other.

Austria is completely different. High temp and high altitude. And yet Ferrari and RB both managed to beat their 2018 quali laptime. Only Mercedes suffered.

At Hockenheim however, all top 3 teams failed to match 2018 quali, and temp is not that hot.

Need to consider that it rained before qualifying, therefore the track was probably greener than in 2018 which will also have a big effect on lap times



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[Morteza]

[GPR-A]

what is mouth watering about Verstappen massively beating Hamilton and showing him up? Remember that Hamilton had a hard time with Rosberg who got confortably trounced by webber, who got easily beaten by Vettel, who had a hard time keeping up with Ricciardo, who struggled to match Verstappen.

I can feel your pain man. Watching Lewis win day in and day out isn't that easy. So in that sense, if statement above makes one feel comfortable, then why not conceive it and be happy. Right?

[zibby43]

So, it turns out Mercedes were overshooting the tire operating window today, as the asphalt temperatures were actually very high.

Merc didn't start to figure out a fix until they put on the Mediums in Q2. It was more difficult trying to figure out the tire preparation and setup parts of the equation with the new upgrade package (which was working as expected).

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... l-ferrari/

[drunkf1fan]

Imagine giving Verstappen and Hamilton the same car. Mouth watering stuff every quali and race.

what is mouth watering about Verstappen massively beating Hamilton and showing him up? Remember that Hamilton had a hard time with Rosberg who got confortably trounced by webber, who got easily beaten by Vettel, who had a hard time keeping up with Ricciardo, who struggled to match Verstappen.

Something about 2019 cars that just doesn't fit Hockenheim. Best 2019 S3 in quali is actually slower than 2018. You'd think with that that much downforce 2019 cars should at least win S3.

and are around 0.5s slower over the whole lap than on 2018. On Austria they struggled to match 2018 too. It's not just Hockenheim. The development on F1 is very poor compared to the one LMP1s used to have when there was competition there, meaning, 5s of improvement from one year to the other.

Wow, just, wow. Let's break that down a little, Webber trounced Rosberg, 7 to 4 points, Webber in his 5th season, 2nd in Williams to Rosberg's rookie season.

Webber who got easily beaten by Vettel, but led him into the final race in 2010. From that point onwards he was treated much more like a no.2 driver and he acted like it. But that season was very close.

As for Hamilton having a rough time against Rosberg... lol, he trashed him completely on every single metric. With equal reliability records it would have been a complete and utter destruction. The only reason Rosberg, who lost probably 95% of on track battles with Hamilton, and got destroyed in the only season he setup for race pace in qualifying like Hamilton does, won a single title was a combination of reliability and lack of competition from other teams.

For Vettel/Webber battle, if Vettel had a bad race or a failure Webber wasn't certain to win because he had a car 30 seconds faster than every other team in most races. If Hamilton has a failure then Rosberg won by default, easily.


Then lastly on the 'lack of development' compared to LMP1. The regulations changed, they aren't the same cars, they did lose speed in certain places and yet their heavy development reduced those losses such that at most tracks they are faster despite the regulations being a fair wedge slower. If they developed last seasons cars they would have been easily faster here again. The tires also changed, though only a little.

[dans79]

So, it turns out Mercedes were overshooting the tire operating window today, as the asphalt temperatures were actually very high.

Merc didn't start to figure out a fix until they put on the Mediums in Q2. It was more difficult trying to figure out the tire preparation and setup parts of the equation with the new upgrade package (which was working as expected).

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... l-ferrari/

That explains why the car seemed all over the place on softs!

[siskue2005]

Anybody noticed Max was running very very very slow out lap when he was on softs in q2
And in q3 both mercs imitated this and were running at similar slow pace on their out lap

[GPR-A]

Lewis on Mediums in Q2, was 3 tenths faster than Verstappen, who was on Softs and 2 tenths faster than Leclerc, who was on Mediums too. Mercs should think of optimizing the setup completely for Mediums wherever there are hotter temperatures, instead of struggling to make the Softs work for that one lap pace in Q3. With their Q3 modes and with a car completely optimized for Q3, they should either be better than Ferraris OR on par with them for Q3 as Red Bull is not a competition in qualifying. It would pay off aggressively in races. For that, they should start choosing more mediums when the time comes for tire selection.

[zibby43]

So, it turns out Mercedes were overshooting the tire operating window today, as the asphalt temperatures were actually very high.

Merc didn't start to figure out a fix until they put on the Mediums in Q2. It was more difficult trying to figure out the tire preparation and setup parts of the equation with the new upgrade package (which was working as expected).

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... l-ferrari/

That explains why the car seemed all over the place on softs!

Yep. Merc already had a tendency to generate more tire temperature in warm conditions because of how much downforce they create. With the updates, I'm sure that issue was complicated as they searched for the ideal setup and outlap procedures for those Softs.

Lewis on Mediums in Q2, was 3 tenths faster than Verstappen, who was on Softs and 2 tenths faster than Leclerc, who was on Mediums too. Mercs should think of optimizing the setup completely for Mediums wherever there are hotter temperatures, instead of struggling to make the Softs work for that one lap pace in Q3. With their Q3 modes and with a car completely optimized for Q3, they should either be better than Ferraris OR on par with them for Q3 as Red Bull is not a competition in qualifying. It would pay off aggressively in races. For that, they should start choosing more mediums when the time comes for tire selection.

On days like this, when the midfield closes up on Mercedes out of nowhere (like in Bahrain), it usually is an indicator that Merc is not quite on top of the tires.

[Pyrone89]

Imagine giving Verstappen and Hamilton the same car. Mouth watering stuff every quali and race.

Ham & Alo had the same car. They ended up finishing runner-up. And, remember the qualifying debacle in Hungary? Not a good idea to have 2 roosters in the hen house.

There are no signs that Verstappen is anywhere as toxic for your team as Alonso. I also dont see Verstappen as someone who plays mindgames. So I think it could work out. Furthermore, even if so, Toto should work for his money

[NathanOlder]

and are around 0.5s slower over the whole lap than on 2018. On Austria they struggled to match 2018 too. It's not just Hockenheim. The development on F1 is very poor compared to the one LMP1s used to have when there was competition there, meaning, 5s of improvement from one year to the other.

Austria is completely different. High temp and high altitude. And yet Ferrari and RB both managed to beat their 2018 quali laptime. Only Mercedes suffered.

At Hockenheim however, all top 3 teams failed to match 2018 quali, and temp is not that hot.

Need to consider that it rained before qualifying, therefore the track was probably greener than in 2018 which will also have a big effect on lap times



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And 1 less DRS zone.

[Ringleheim]

This was a Ferrari 1-2 kind of day, until everything went to hell on both cars.

The problems continue to pile up; the current management structure is not right.

[aleks_ader]

I think is wishful thinking that Ferrari could beat Lewis time. I cannot believe Leclerc had such big advantage. I think RB and Ferrari are close, neck to neck. Only in Q Ferrari stretches RBs with party mode by 1tenth or two max. So Leclerc would still failed short by a 1 tenth. On another side of garage Vettel were slowest all vikend and i think he would be close, but not fastest Ferrari.

[NathanOlder]

Imagine giving Verstappen and Hamilton the same car. Mouth watering stuff every quali and race.

Ham & Alo had the same car. They ended up finishing runner-up. And, remember the qualifying debacle in Hungary? Not a good idea to have 2 roosters in the hen house.

Bad for the team, great for viewing.

Although I'd be fine with Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull getting out of the way and letting us focus on the rest of the field. It'd be a mouthwatering championship.

Yeah, once the 2 world championships are settled, the FIA need to figure out a way to ban Merc Ferrari and RedBull for 1 race. Then 6 of the remaining 7 teams will all be fighting for a race win!! There would only be 3 race winners on the grid, so very likely we would have a new race winner.