Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Pyrone89]

Cooling bullet dodged, Sunday is forecasted to be only 25 degrees and even rainy. Will have to wait for Hungary to see if the rumored cooling fix works.

Canada, France and Silverstone were hot, Merc had cooling problems in Austria because of the combination of high ambient temperatures and also the high altitude. Hockenheim is not high altitude, so regardless of the temperature, Merc were going to be ok.

Sure it was a combo, but saying they would have been fine with temps of almost 39 degrees (now forecasted to arrive 2 days earlier) might be stretch. And I dont recall Silverstone, Canada or France being 35 degrees or higher such as Austria and the early Hockenheim forecasts said.

[roon]

Throttle body before the turbo on F1 turbo engines
viewtopic.php?t=3012

[gruntguru]

Throttling pre turbo in general reduces compressor work and "vortex throttling" can significantly improve the compressor efficiency at part load. eg Rolls Royce Crecy nearly 80 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Crecy

Supercharger throttling was used as well to achieve idling. The supercharger throttles were novel vortex types, varying the effective angle of attack of the impeller blades from 60 to 30 degrees. This reduced the power required to drive the supercharger when throttled, and hence fuel consumption at cruising power.

[saviour stivala]

Who of the four present manufacturers uses a throttle body before the compressor intake?, if it is permitted by the rules that is.

[63l8qrrfy6]

It would appear the compressor inlet stator vanes can be used as a throttle. If so, for what use?

Throttling the compressor might reduce MGUH power requirements for spool up.

They are there strictly to provide pre-whirl at part load.

They appear to be capable of fully shuttering closed. Which implies function beyond inducing helicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwALos8CwJ0&t=22s

Watch the first 15 minutes or so - he explicitly says how it operates.
The fact that he is a former Merc Brixworth employee is no coincidence

The engine throttling is still done by conventional throttles located above the inlet ports.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Throttle body before the turbo on F1 turbo engines
viewtopic.php?t=3012

I am fairly sure that in the first turbo era pre compressor throttles were only used to lower inlet pressure and avoid stall when the main throttle was shut.

[gruntguru]

Who of the four present manufacturers uses a throttle body before the compressor intake?, if it is permitted by the rules that is.

I can't imagine the benefit of a rule to outlaw an upstream throttle. I doubt such a law exists.

[saviour stivala]

They are there strictly to provide pre-whirl at part load.

They appear to be capable of fully shuttering closed. Which implies function beyond inducing helicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwALos8CwJ0&t=22s

Watch the first 15 minutes or so - he explicitly says how it operates.
The fact that he is a former Merc Brixworth employee is no coincidence

The engine throttling is still done by conventional throttles located above the inlet ports.

Did the former ex Brixworth employee said the system is being used by Brixworth?.,

[63l8qrrfy6]

They appear to be capable of fully shuttering closed. Which implies function beyond inducing helicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwALos8CwJ0&t=22s

Watch the first 15 minutes or so - he explicitly says how it operates.
The fact that he is a former Merc Brixworth employee is no coincidence

The engine throttling is still done by conventional throttles located above the inlet ports.

Did the former ex Brixworth employee said the system is being used by Brixworth?.,

Did you not see the picture posted by roon on the previous page that started this conversation?

[roon]

They are there strictly to provide pre-whirl at part load.

They appear to be capable of fully shuttering closed. Which implies function beyond inducing helicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwALos8CwJ0&t=22s
Watch the first 15 minutes or so - he explicitly says how it operates.

russian swirl throttle

Might confuse the bartender with that one. "One part vodka, one part vermouth, one part aviation spirit, dash flow-viz..." Anyway. Does he go in to what happens when the vanes fully close?

[Tommy Cookers]

in hand before roon's post above ....

the USSR seemed to be the only player in WW2 that had 'vortex throttling' in aircraft engines
(Callum Whatisname might be mentioning in his book and has mentioned in talks WW2 German work/opinion on this ?)
Poland (so France ?) had a VT line of work which was known in GB

potential VT benefit was most eg in eg British WW2 fighters at takeoff - but only when using VP/CS props with 80/87 fuel
before this fixed pitch props had needed much less throttling for boost regulation at t/o (less rpm so boost much less)
and afterwards 100/130 fuel then 2 speed supercharging alleviated the throttling-for-boost-regulation issue
though yes - all boosted aircraft engines (and even a few NA) had manual or automatic TFBR
(all boosted except Kinners that were by design below 1 bar abs - ask Harrison Ford)
manual means eg at takeoff you don't give 'full throttle' - you throttle to stay down to the specified MAP eg 38"
I never asked 'old school' pilots what they actually did - though some have written or spoken about this in interviews
British engines were all automatic
in 1940 the fighters went overnight from 1050 t/o hp to 1310 t/o hp by resetting the autoregulation for 100/130 fuel

V16 BRM fans and RR Crecy fans (why ?) see VT as the 'holy grail'
(I here give my apologies to those people enthusiastic in their regard of actual holy grails)

[63l8qrrfy6]

in hand before roon's post above ....

the USSR seemed to be the only player in WW2 that had 'vortex throttling' in aircraft engines
(Callum Whatisname might be mentioning in his book and has mentioned in talks WW2 German work/opinion on this ?)

I did read an article of his where he was talking about a captured russian plane examined by the germans. I think it lead them to develop their own variable guide vanes but I can't remember whether they ever made it into production.

[63l8qrrfy6]

They appear to be capable of fully shuttering closed. Which implies function beyond inducing helicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwALos8CwJ0&t=22s
Watch the first 15 minutes or so - he explicitly says how it operates.

russian swirl throttle

Might confuse the bartender with that one. "One part vodka, one part vermouth, one part aviation spirit, dash flow-viz..." Anyway. Does he go in to what happens when the vanes fully close?

Nope, but again I don't see why they would do that.

[Craigy]

Interesting that Andy Cowell mentions the ES can output 200kW in this video (around 3mins in) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C1-KDkGDUA
Obvious comment is obvious, but the ERS K can deploy 120kW, so you'd have to assume the other 80kW is for the H.

[subcritical71]

Interesting that Andy Cowell mentions the ES can output 200kW in this video (around 3mins in) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C1-KDkGDUA
Obvious comment is obvious, but the ERS K can deploy 120kW, so you'd have to assume the other 80kW is for the H.

Which I believe is right where henry has calculated the H power consumption at for quite some time now.