Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[subcritical71]

Senate bill includes up to $1B for clean-car infrastructure

As proposed, it includes up to $1 billion for states to build "alternative-fuel" infrastructure. That could include funding for hydrogen, natural gas, ethanol, or even biodiesel stations or other infrastructure. With more than 2 million electric cars on the roads today, compared with fewer than 200,000 natural gas cars and barely 5,000 hydrogen vehicles, however, most of that money seems more likely to be spent on public electric-car charging stations.
Add that to the remainder of the $2 billion Volkswagen is spending to build out its Electrify America charging network, plus hundreds of millions spent by other charging networks, and by 2023, charging stations could be plentiful.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... um=twitter

The US needs some sort of regulation which at least standardizes the charging systems at a minimum basic level. For example, a common plug with xx kWh capacity. That capacity needs to be high enough to enable a relatively high rate of charge, and I don’t know what number that is. That’s not to say you can’t have proprietary charging at ludicrous rates, just that every station has to allow charging at a basic rate and common interface. The situation right now is like if you take an ICE station and only allow Chevy to use Shell, Ford to use Mobil, Kia to use Exxon, etc.

[Tommy Cookers]

.... I´ll need some clarification ....
....ICEs emit a lot more harmful substances wich are causing respiratory diseases into cities, so not sure if I´m not understanding your reply, or you didn´t understand mine :?:

in the EU the WHO advice on the safe level of air pollution is the EU legal limit (imo fraudulent and over cautious)
regardless, that limit is met throughout the UK on almost every day of the year
so the ICE cannot be causing an unsafe level of respiratory disease

so if I ever again write that there's no direct benefit to health in switching to EVs ....
don't again downmark my post !!

like a Mr Hamilton I have been experiencing mild flu-like symptoms
at my NHS clinic they suggest that it is probably due to the high levels of natural air pollution - grass pollen
an effect of warmer weather on those who live outside the city and its supposed air pollution

[subcritical71]

.... I´ll need some clarification ....
....ICEs emit a lot more harmful substances wich are causing respiratory diseases into cities, so not sure if I´m not understanding your reply, or you didn´t understand mine

in the EU the WHO advice on the safe level of air pollution is the EU legal limit (imo fraudulent and over cautious)
regardless, that limit is met throughout the UK on almost every day of the year
so the ICE cannot be causing an unsafe level of respiratory disease

so if I ever again write that there's no direct benefit to health in switching to EVs ....
don't again downmark my post !!

like a Mr Hamilton I have been experiencing mild flu-like symptoms
at my NHS clinic they suggest that it is probably due to the high levels of natural air pollution - grass pollen
an effect of warmer weather on those who live outside the city and its supposed air pollution

I look at Los Angelos. I am not a claustrophobic person, but when I visit that city I feel closed in and can't believe how thick the smog is. If the people that live there aren't more affected by that I don't see how ICE vehicles anywhere could be considered unsafe from an air pollution point of view.

[Andres125sx]

.... I´ll need some clarification ....
....ICEs emit a lot more harmful substances wich are causing respiratory diseases into cities, so not sure if I´m not understanding your reply, or you didn´t understand mine

in the EU the WHO advice on the safe level of air pollution is the EU legal limit (imo fraudulent and over cautious)
regardless, that limit is met throughout the UK on almost every day of the year
so the ICE cannot be causing an unsafe level of respiratory disease

Are you serious Tommy???

So if there´s wind and/or rain cleaning cities atmosphere (how usual is that in the UK Tommy? ), you really think that´s an evidente about ICEs not causing respiratory diseases?

Safety levels of pollution are always broken on calm and dry days, actually every time there´s a few days without rain and wind, pollution increases over safety levels. Just with a few days. And even in summer (heating systems off). So sincerely, you´re statement has no sense at all Tommy, it´s damn obvious ICE are causing serious respiratory diseases and EV will improve that drastically.

WHO does not act according to rumours or assumptions, it´s science. It´s your reply wich is based on rumours and false assumptions Tommy...

[Andres125sx]

.... I´ll need some clarification ....
....ICEs emit a lot more harmful substances wich are causing respiratory diseases into cities, so not sure if I´m not understanding your reply, or you didn´t understand mine

in the EU the WHO advice on the safe level of air pollution is the EU legal limit (imo fraudulent and over cautious)
regardless, that limit is met throughout the UK on almost every day of the year
so the ICE cannot be causing an unsafe level of respiratory disease

so if I ever again write that there's no direct benefit to health in switching to EVs ....
don't again downmark my post !!

like a Mr Hamilton I have been experiencing mild flu-like symptoms
at my NHS clinic they suggest that it is probably due to the high levels of natural air pollution - grass pollen
an effect of warmer weather on those who live outside the city and its supposed air pollution

I look at Los Angelos. I am not a claustrophobic person, but when I visit that city I feel closed in and can't believe how thick the smog is. If the people that live there aren't more affected by that I don't see how ICE vehicles anywhere could be considered unsafe from an air pollution point of view.

Another falso assumption I´m afraid...

https://www.ehn.org/chronic-respiratory ... 65230.html

[subcritical71]

in the EU the WHO advice on the safe level of air pollution is the EU legal limit (imo fraudulent and over cautious)
regardless, that limit is met throughout the UK on almost every day of the year
so the ICE cannot be causing an unsafe level of respiratory disease

so if I ever again write that there's no direct benefit to health in switching to EVs ....
don't again downmark my post !!

like a Mr Hamilton I have been experiencing mild flu-like symptoms
at my NHS clinic they suggest that it is probably due to the high levels of natural air pollution - grass pollen
an effect of warmer weather on those who live outside the city and its supposed air pollution

I look at Los Angelos. I am not a claustrophobic person, but when I visit that city I feel closed in and can't believe how thick the smog is. If the people that live there aren't more affected by that I don't see how ICE vehicles anywhere could be considered unsafe from an air pollution point of view.

Another falso assumption I´m afraid...

https://www.ehn.org/chronic-respiratory ... 65230.html

I’ve been to Bakersfield (Kern County). The farming there is like nothing you’ve ever seen before. They are in a valley and the pesticides are very noticeable most days. The tractors plowing and doing work in the fields look like mars rovers going through a sandstorm, with about 20 high intensity lights needed just to see where they are going. I don’t think it’s vehicles in Kern County causing the respiratory disease. There is also another hazard from this farming that is stressed when I go to a job site and that is valley fever which gets into your lungs and causes respiratory problems.

I’m not saying their is no influence on death rates from vehicle emissions, just that the difference in going from crystal clear back country to LA smog isn’t as bad as what they want people to believe.

[Big Tea]

I look at Los Angelos. I am not a claustrophobic person, but when I visit that city I feel closed in and can't believe how thick the smog is. If the people that live there aren't more affected by that I don't see how ICE vehicles anywhere could be considered unsafe from an air pollution point of view.

Another falso assumption I´m afraid...

https://www.ehn.org/chronic-respiratory ... 65230.html

I’ve been to Bakersfield (Kern County). The farming there is like nothing you’ve ever seen before. They are in a valley and the pesticides are very noticeable most days. The tractors plowing and doing work in the fields look like mars rovers going through a sandstorm, with about 20 high intensity lights needed just to see where they are going. I don’t think it’s vehicles in Kern County causing the respiratory disease. There is also another hazard from this farming that is stressed when I go to a job site and that is valley fever which gets into your lungs and causes respiratory problems.

I’m not saying their is no influence on death rates from vehicle emissions, just that the difference in going from crystal clear back country to LA smog isn’t as bad as what they want people to believe.

In my area it is the pine trees being blamed. It has traditionally been a hardwood region but due to all the subsidies imported fur trees are planted by the million and soon cut down. I was shown a swatch ( its what they call a length of sticky tape mounted in a fan box ) that was blocked solid with emissions from these trees.
I like to see green, but make no mistake these are factories, and have emissions to rival the worst.

[Andres125sx]

I look at Los Angelos. I am not a claustrophobic person, but when I visit that city I feel closed in and can't believe how thick the smog is. If the people that live there aren't more affected by that I don't see how ICE vehicles anywhere could be considered unsafe from an air pollution point of view.

Another falso assumption I´m afraid...

https://www.ehn.org/chronic-respiratory ... 65230.html

I’ve been to Bakersfield (Kern County). The farming there is like nothing you’ve ever seen before. They are in a valley and the pesticides are very noticeable most days. The tractors plowing and doing work in the fields look like mars rovers going through a sandstorm, with about 20 high intensity lights needed just to see where they are going. I don’t think it’s vehicles in Kern County causing the respiratory disease. There is also another hazard from this farming that is stressed when I go to a job site and that is valley fever which gets into your lungs and causes respiratory problems.

I’m not saying their is no influence on death rates from vehicle emissions, just that the difference in going from crystal clear back country to LA smog isn’t as bad as what they want people to believe.

I posted that link because you talked about Los Angeles, not me. But you can find similar reports with any big city if now you think Los Angeles is not a good example

It´s not what they want people to belive, it´s pretty obvious, I really struggle to understand your point of view trying to negate something so obvious. Some people use the fumes coming out from an ICE exhaust to commit suicide, but you´re going to argue about how harmul those fumes are for humans when some millions cars fumes gets concentrated because of the lack of rain and wind? Really?

[Andres125sx]

Hey Subcritical, I don´t mind about the downvote, but my english must be even worst than I think because the reasoning for the downvote look completely no sense to me... posioning vs health concerns... What´s wrong with that mate?

The fumes wich comes out of an exhaust are poison, it is this simple. We have never care before because we assumed when they get diluted in the atmosphere concentration becomes so small it´s not a problem... until we reached the point were there are so many exhausts emitting toxic fumes at the same time in a small area (cities) wich it becomes a real problem... at least when there´s no wind or rain to dilute it.

We can argue about how harmul those fumes are, but negating those toxic fumes are harmful is far from reasonable

[subcritical71]

Hey Subcritical, I don´t mind about the downvote, but my english must be even worst than I think because the reasoning for the downvote look completely no sense to me... posioning vs health concerns... What´s wrong with that mate?

I didn’t downvote you.... I like the discussion.

The fumes wich comes out of an exhaust are poison, it is this simple. We have never care before because we assumed when they get diluted in the atmosphere concentration becomes so small it´s not a problem... until we reached the point were there are so many exhausts emitting toxic fumes at the same time in a small area (cities) wich it becomes a real problem... at least when there´s no wind or rain to dilute it.

We can argue about how harmul those fumes are, but negating those toxic fumes are harmful is far from reasonable

I didn't mean to negate that the fumes are harmful, I just don't think they are as harmful as some try to scare you into believing.

[strad]

2023, charging stations could be plentiful

Well they better get busy because in 2018 there were not quite 60,000 charging stations in the entire U.S.
And most of those I imagine are clustered in certain metropolitan areas.

[subcritical71]

2023, charging stations could be plentiful

Well they better get busy because in 2018 there were not quite 60,000 charging stations in the entire U.S.
And most of those I imagine are clustered in certain metropolitan areas.

I find the 60K number hard to believe. Unless I'm not understanding where the number is coming from.

Using data from here (https://www.convenience.org/Research/Fa ... StoreCount) as a data point there are 152K gas stations in the US at the end of 2018. What I find hard to believe is that this would mean that EV stations make up roughly 30% of the total gas+charging station mix. It seems disproportionately high compared to the number of EVs on the road. I would have assumed the charging stations would be much less. They must be counting all the charging stations at dealers, hotels, businesses, etc. or they are counting charging connections (ie. fuel pumps)(?).

Edit: to get the 152K number I used the quoted 80% of fuel purchases come from 122K convenience stores.

[Big Tea]

2023, charging stations could be plentiful

Well they better get busy because in 2018 there were not quite 60,000 charging stations in the entire U.S.
And most of those I imagine are clustered in certain metropolitan areas.

I find the 60K number hard to believe. Unless I'm not understanding where the number is coming from.

Using data from here (https://www.convenience.org/Research/Fa ... StoreCount) as a data point there are 152K gas stations in the US at the end of 2018. What I find hard to believe is that this would mean that EV stations make up roughly 30% of the total gas+charging station mix. It seems disproportionately high compared to the number of EVs on the road. I would have assumed the charging stations would be much less. They must be counting all the charging stations at dealers, hotels, businesses, etc. or they are counting charging connections (ie. fuel pumps)(?).

Edit: to get the 152K number I used the quoted 80% of fuel purchases come from 122K convenience stores.

You also have to factor in the 5min or so for fuel and the time taken for even a rapid charge. A pump can service 10 vehicles per hour easily v an absolute maximum of maybe 2 for an electric station

[strad]

Consumer Reports ..Their source is U.S. Dept. of Energy's Alternative Fuels Data Center.
.
I've wondered.. They list the range of EVs right? But does that include lights on driving or using accessories like A/C? Do they use daylight driving lights in estimating range?

[Andres125sx]

I didn't mean to negate that the fumes are harmful, I just don't think they are as harmful as some try to scare you into believing.

Nobody try to scare me into believing, it´s science. It´s proven by science the fumes from an ICE are toxic and cause several respiratory problems. Nobody can negate this, well, at least same as nobody can negate the Earth is spherical... but still some people...