2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Wynters
Wynters
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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ringo wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:34
By the way, Sainz beating Gasley must the nail in his coffin. kyvaat to redbull for the second half.
Sainz was the clear driver of the day. Many people say the car is all that matters, but I don't see many (any?) saying that the McLaren is faster than the Red Bull. It was an outrageous drive that should make it pretty clear that the driver is a key component on any package and can make a significant difference.

It's been evident for the entirety of this year (if you ignore the front three manufacturers). The midfield battle is so close that individual driver performances often dictate whether their car is out in Q1 or scrapes into Q3. McLaren are beginning to put some air between themselves and the rest but, up until very, very recently, it's been absolutely nip and tuck (and very exciting as a result).

There's a reasonable shout to be made for Geroge Russel as driver of the day too. He beat a Racing Point on pace. In a Williams. A Williams! In 2019!

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Just_a_fan wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:28
Pyrone89 wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 00:49
And people still question wether the W10 is the best car in the last 31 years. This car has 10 out of 12 victories so far
It shouldn't have though. It lucked in to wins in Bahrain and Canada.

You do realise that we all realise that your continually bringing this up is an attempt to say that someone is only winning because of his car, yes? It's funny, really. :wink:
You do realise he is not saying that at all, just that he feels that the Merc package is still ahead and as such we are still not completely seeing two knights joust with open vizors.

What you are saying how he seems it brings down the level of the performance of todays race winner to nothing, as If it were just the car. Widely seen differently.

It is this wild overexaggerating that makes these forums such a chore.

By the way, I have been trying to talk more sense into him about the RBR versus Merc package but he still thinks the gap is larger then I do. But then again, it is only estimation.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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I don't understand why some are looking for this utopian race where we'll see two guys fighting equally. It's not gonna happen. Differences in cars and drivers are why they pass reach other or defend against. Sometimes it's the driver you support other times it's someone else. And that's fine. That's team sport. Using that as an excuse to say oh we still haven't seen them go against each other *properly* makes no sense. F1 isn't setup that way, F2 is. So it'll be great to put it to rest and see how the teams and drivers we support do with the cards they have been dealt.
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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Not even in F2.

It is also something that is not strictly necessary, but it is necessary to take into account the difference in performance of the car If you want to judge the relative performance of the drivers, and aim to judge fairly or even accurately And that is what is constantly being done. More often then not quite harshly.

Wynters
Wynters
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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I recommend people watch Hamilton's comments from 06:40 to 07:19. I think it's a good window into his racing mindset, not just for this race but for the last few seasons (and, given its success, likely the next few too).

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ringo
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Yes. He does not see anyone as a direct competitor at this time. He is focusing on racking up points.
He was very careful driving with Max; giving him too much room. I believe he did the same with Bottas at silverstone.
It doesn't look like he will knock wheels with anyone this year unless he is behind on points. He will chose to overtake on a straight, or in the pits before he goes wheel to wheel. Very mature thinking; but i do wonder if he will lose that racers edge.
For Sure!!

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Pyrone89 wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 00:49
And people still question wether the W10 is the best car in the last 31 years. This car has 10 out of 12 victories so far
Have you seen the 2004 season...
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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Awesome race, gotta hand it to Merc and Lewis, that was great driving and strategy.

I really feel for Max, he did everything right and led most of the race. Still his maturity is clearly massively improved now. His comments after the race really showed how far he's come.

Very disappointing race for Renault, no points at all - the car is unfortunately a donkey.
"In downforce we trust"

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ringo
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Shrieker wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 03:09
Pyrone89 wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 00:49
And people still question wether the W10 is the best car in the last 31 years. This car has 10 out of 12 victories so far
Have you seen the 2004 season...
Better yet 2013. those redbull years were most times single handed especially in the last half of the season. It was just down to webber and vettel.
For Sure!!

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Shrieker wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 03:09
Pyrone89 wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 00:49
And people still question wether the W10 is the best car in the last 31 years. This car has 10 out of 12 victories so far
Have you seen the 2004 season...
The '16 W07 won 19 of 21 races. It won 11 of the first 12. The only 2 races the W07 didn't win: Spain (Rosberg and Hamilton took each other out on the first lap) and Malaysia (Hamilton retired from the lead).

That was only 3 years ago. That car was dominant.

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015, 03:34

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Wynters wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:46
ringo wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:34
By the way, Sainz beating Gasley must the nail in his coffin. kyvaat to redbull for the second half.
Sainz was the clear driver of the day. Many people say the car is all that matters, but I don't see many (any?) saying that the McLaren is faster than the Red Bull. It was an outrageous drive that should make it pretty clear that the driver is a key component on any package and can make a significant difference.

It's been evident for the entirety of this year (if you ignore the front three manufacturers). The midfield battle is so close that individual driver performances often dictate whether their car is out in Q1 or scrapes into Q3. McLaren are beginning to put some air between themselves and the rest but, up until very, very recently, it's been absolutely nip and tuck (and very exciting as a result).

There's a reasonable shout to be made for Geroge Russel as driver of the day too. He beat a Racing Point on pace. In a Williams. A Williams! In 2019!
Sainz's drive is being really over rated. Gasly has failed to finish ahead of Renault's, Mclaren's, maybe a Sauber as well. Gasly is terrible on corner exit, with his issue apparently being really bad throttle application and he's not at all brave under heavy braking so the two things you want for making passes make him basically crap.

Before he was stuck behind Sainz he was stuck behind Sainz, he was stuck behind Kimi until Lando and Kimi pitted. He came out behind Sainz and couldn't pass him either.

If the sole reason Sainz's drive was amazing was keeping Gasly behind him, then Kimi was as good or better as he's in a worse car and did the same.

Realistically Lando was within a couple of seconds up to the pitstop, the team messed up the stop only by a short amount but it was enough to come out behind Gasly and for Kimi to pit a lap later and also be able to come out ahead. Sainz kept basically the same gap through the second stint to Sainz as well so Sainz, while it was a solid drive was never really under any pressure from Lando or Gasly. It wasn't amazing defensive driving, just hard to pass and Gasly had the car but not the ability, Lando had the ability but not the car (ie even with ability you need a faster car, he had the same one).

Lando in fact after pitting had to pass Ricciardo and Magnussen and even kept Bottas behind him from lap 29 to lap 62 before Bottas used the extra stop to catch back up and pass with monumentally newer tires. Even then Lando passed two cars with older tires that were slower and keeping Bottas behind him was roughly as impressive as keeping Gasly behind Sainz... Bottas and Gasly were absolutely horrific in this race.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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After his stop Lewis was 6.2 seconds down.

We blinked.

He was in DRS. Absolutely mega few laps. Pressure straight back on Max - no time to rest the tyres... this proved critical.

Just like Seb in Canada - he is relentless when he needs to be.

That was amazing to watch and hilarious to see it catch everyone out, including seemingly the tv race Director and Martin Brundle. Suddenly he was right there!

HAM seems to have that incredible combination of amazing speed with excellent tire management. His driving style barely takes anything out of the tires even when hustling other

Anyone else saw how after that Max had back marker after back marker with DRS for him to save from Lewis attack, 4 times he had DRS on the straight (well placed by Max to overtake them correctly to help him with DRS)....that saved him from the initial onslaught.... and them Lewis ran wide and overheat his brakes and took out the best of his tyres by then.

I have no words for Kimi, what a solid job to pull that car to the back of the leaders!

McMika98
McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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drunkf1fan wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 06:50
Wynters wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:46
ringo wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:34
By the way, Sainz beating Gasley must the nail in his coffin. kyvaat to redbull for the second half.
Sainz was the clear driver of the day. Many people say the car is all that matters, but I don't see many (any?) saying that the McLaren is faster than the Red Bull. It was an outrageous drive that should make it pretty clear that the driver is a key component on any package and can make a significant difference.
Sainz's drive is being really over rated. Gasly has failed to finish ahead of Renault's, Mclaren's, maybe a Sauber as well. Before he was stuck behind Sainz he was stuck behind Sainz, he was stuck behind Kimi until Lando and Kimi pitted. He came out behind Sainz and couldn't pass him either.
Amen to the last point, he didnt have any overtakes nor defensive moves the likes of Albon had to diah out to earn a point. He was very comfortable with the car behind as we know Gasly lacks racing instinct to overtake after all he cluttered his teammate even after he was told by the team to be released.
Strangely the medium tyre were just not working today. The guys who started on soft were so much quicker then even the Ferraris towards the end of stint. Sainz , Raikonnein and Lando were doind better laptimes on 20 year old used soft rubbers than people with fresh set.

McMika98
McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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McMika98 wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 07:16
drunkf1fan wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 06:50
Wynters wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 01:46
Sainz was the clear driver of the day. Many people say the car is all that matters, but I don't see many (any?) saying that the McLaren is faster than the Red Bull. It was an outrageous drive that should make it pretty clear that the driver is a key component on any package and can make a significant difference.
Sainz's drive is being really over rated. Gasly has failed to finish ahead of Renault's, Mclaren's, maybe a Sauber as well. Before he was stuck behind Sainz he was stuck behind Sainz, he was stuck behind Kimi until Lando and Kimi pitted. He came out behind Sainz and couldn't pass him either.
Amen to the last point, he didnt have any overtakes nor defensive moves the likes of Albon had to dish out to earn a point. He was very comfortable with the car behind as we know Gasly lacks racing instinct to overtake after all he cluttered his teammate even after he was told by the team to be released.
Strangely the medium tyre were just not working today. The guys who started on soft were so much quicker then even the Ferraris towards the end of stint. Sainz , Raikonnein and Lando were doind better laptimes on 20 year old used soft rubbers than people with fresh set.

KiLLu12258
KiLLu12258
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 14:55

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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the only mistake made by redbull was that they did the first stop 3-4 laps to early. At that time the tyre did work and i dont think that hamilton could overtake him at this time. Also Max had to do a lot of overtakes after the stop, which is by far the reason why mercedes waited that long.

But its so easy to say afterwards.