2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[restless]

The chance was switch to softs and try to reverse who's on faster tyre
Vettel made 30 laps on new sfots before overtaking Leclerc, surely tyres used for 2 laps in qualy should be ok for 20 laps...
maybe it could work, maybe not, they still had huge margin to 3rd place. But again - probably they were expecting that hards will be ok till the end
Pirelli expected that, but this prediction failed.

And first close a gap of 20s, which you will burn to the tyres already, and then fighting against Ham on fresh Mediums, which, as known, would last longer? A lost game, because as said Softs would be gone by the time VER would be near Ham and HAM would have matched the pace of VER for 5 laps and the deal was done anyway

Where do you get these 20s from?!
2-3 laps AFTER Hamilton pitted, it was obvious best Max can do is lose only 1s/lap.
Pitting then would've put him 3-4s behind Hamilton, maybe less, depending on traffic and pit time.
With ~ 15-17 laps to go and tyres 0.6 faster (according to Pirelli... :/ ) 3-4s behind is 5-6 laps chasing and a chance to try overtaking.
At least I thought so back then, and still think that way. Better chance than waiting the inevitable.

[diffuser]

Hamilton and his Mercedes is still a bit ahead of the RB15 and Max. But who would have thought that at the middle of the season, we would be talking about fighting the Mercs without lucky strikes, and losing a race on the final laps that was so close. It's encouraging for the remaining races, but more for 2020

RBR have been competative at Hungry for I don't remember how many years. They've also been part of the top 3 for a few years now. So it wasn't a huge leap. Not sure why it's such a big revelation. What is more surprising is Ferrari's Drop. In these lower speed corners races. Although I don't think they were as slow as they showed. They just saw they weren't gonna catch the front runners and dialed it back for the race.

[Jolle]

The chance was switch to softs and try to reverse who's on faster tyre
Vettel made 30 laps on new sfots before overtaking Leclerc, surely tyres used for 2 laps in qualy should be ok for 20 laps...
maybe it could work, maybe not, they still had huge margin to 3rd place. But again - probably they were expecting that hards will be ok till the end
Pirelli expected that, but this prediction failed.

And first close a gap of 20s, which you will burn to the tyres already, and then fighting against Ham on fresh Mediums, which, as known, would last longer? A lost game, because as said Softs would be gone by the time VER would be near Ham and HAM would have matched the pace of VER for 5 laps and the deal was done anyway

Where do you get these 20s from?!
2-3 laps AFTER Hamilton pitted, it was obvious best Max can do is lose only 1s/lap.
Pitting then would've put him 3-4s behind Hamilton, maybe less, depending on traffic and pit time.
With ~ 15-17 laps to go and tyres 0.6 faster (according to Pirelli... :/ ) 3-4s behind is 5-6 laps chasing and a chance to try overtaking.
At least I thought so back then, and still think that way. Better chance than waiting the inevitable.

No, the softs would have ran out of rubber before the finish, and Hamilton on slightly older mediums would have no problem. Best chance was trying to keep a gap enough to the finish (what failed) or hoping on a VSC or SC. Fee track and a slightly faster car was what did it for Hamilton, nothing Verstappen or RedBull could have done.

[IvailoStefanovBG]

The chance was switch to softs and try to reverse who's on faster tyre
Vettel made 30 laps on new sfots before overtaking Leclerc, surely tyres used for 2 laps in qualy should be ok for 20 laps...
maybe it could work, maybe not, they still had huge margin to 3rd place. But again - probably they were expecting that hards will be ok till the end
Pirelli expected that, but this prediction failed.

And first close a gap of 20s, which you will burn to the tyres already, and then fighting against Ham on fresh Mediums, which, as known, would last longer? A lost game, because as said Softs would be gone by the time VER would be near Ham and HAM would have matched the pace of VER for 5 laps and the deal was done anyway

Where do you get these 20s from?!
2-3 laps AFTER Hamilton pitted, it was obvious best Max can do is lose only 1s/lap.
Pitting then would've put him 3-4s behind Hamilton, maybe less, depending on traffic and pit time.
With ~ 15-17 laps to go and tyres 0.6 faster (according to Pirelli... :/ ) 3-4s behind is 5-6 laps chasing and a chance to try overtaking.
At least I thought so back then, and still think that way. Better chance than waiting the inevitable.

You are not quite right. Max was holding 0,2 - 0,3 tenths slower per lap till lap 60 and I remember being sure that he will hold the win with ease at that time.

[diffuser]

The chance was switch to softs and try to reverse who's on faster tyre
Vettel made 30 laps on new sfots before overtaking Leclerc, surely tyres used for 2 laps in qualy should be ok for 20 laps...
maybe it could work, maybe not, they still had huge margin to 3rd place. But again - probably they were expecting that hards will be ok till the end
Pirelli expected that, but this prediction failed.

And first close a gap of 20s, which you will burn to the tyres already, and then fighting against Ham on fresh Mediums, which, as known, would last longer? A lost game, because as said Softs would be gone by the time VER would be near Ham and HAM would have matched the pace of VER for 5 laps and the deal was done anyway

Where do you get these 20s from?!
2-3 laps AFTER Hamilton pitted, it was obvious best Max can do is lose only 1s/lap.
Pitting then would've put him 3-4s behind Hamilton, maybe less, depending on traffic and pit time.
With ~ 15-17 laps to go and tyres 0.6 faster (according to Pirelli... :/ ) 3-4s behind is 5-6 laps chasing and a chance to try overtaking.
At least I thought so back then, and still think that way. Better chance than waiting the inevitable.

I agree, RBR got caught napping. Max was hitting traffic, so they pitted Hamilton. When he came out of the pits he had clear air and was only 19 secs behind. Nothing RBR could do at that point. Even on reds he would NOT have been able to get past Hamilton. You need a huge difference in speed( 1 sec or more faster) to pass in hungry.

[restless]

damn, i lost a post somewhere :/
Vettel did 30 laps on softs.
Anyone claiming "I know that softs won't hold for more than 10 laps", is doing just that - claiming. The proof is for the opposite.

[godlameroso]

Verstappen had a chance to win this race, however RBR got caught out by Mercedes good pit call. Hamilton had slightly more pace than Verstappen in Hungary, because Hamilton had better tire management. Mercedes is still slightly quicker than Red Bull, on the one hand it's disappointing because Mercedes is still the fastest car, on the other hand it bodes well for not just the rest of this year, but next as well. Honda's next engine step along with the fuel upgrade along with any chassis update should give Red Bull that last little bit they need to be on equal terms with Mercedes.

If the same compounds are going to be used at Spa, then perhaps a 2 stop is in order.

[godlameroso]

damn, i lost a post somewhere :/
Vettel did 30 laps on softs.
Anyone claiming "I know that softs won't hold for more than 10 laps", is doing just that - claiming. The proof is for the opposite.

They lasted for 30 laps on Vettel's car. The Ferrari doesn't have as much downforce so it's going to be kinder on its tires as a result.

[restless]

You are not quite right. Max was holding 0,2 - 0,3 tenths slower per lap till lap 60 and I remember being sure that he will hold the win with ease at that time.

Check: http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=ch ... d=33_44_77
Only laps 52-56 due to traffic, Max was losing 0.2-0.3. Before and after these laps he was losing 1+sec/lap
Ok, I don't want to derail the discussion even more , I agree that RB did was the safe bet atm, its easy post factum.

[restless]

damn, i lost a post somewhere :/
Vettel did 30 laps on softs.
Anyone claiming "I know that softs won't hold for more than 10 laps", is doing just that - claiming. The proof is for the opposite.

They lasted for 30 laps on Vettel's car. The Ferrari doesn't have as much downforce so it's going to be kinder on its tires as a result.

Just today i read Binotto saying that due to lower downforce of Ferrari, their tyres slip more and tyres degrade faster
I guess the argument goes both ways

[Capharol]

You guys seems to be the experts... Are you guys already been hired by RB, Mercedes, Ferrari or maybe McLaren.....
All, really ALL real experts agreed :
1. It was a masterstroke by Merc
2. Merc had more pace then the RB
3. RB could not win this battle, whatever you make of it....

But hey the guys at Sky F1 or the strategist at RB, Horner, Verstappen or Priestley know squad about F1.
You guys claiming it is possible are the real experts here

Honestly I would understand you guys if I was the only one telling you this, but doubting ppl that really know how it works..... Disappointing, I thought users here had more knowledge and understanding.
Don't miss understand me, I accept every bodies opinion but being so stubborn and even indirectly saying the experts are wrong.... Well mildly putted.... Disappointed

[loner]

from what Hornor and Harko were saying yesterday i get the conclusion last chance for Gas would be Spa and Monza
because they do seem care for the second in the championship after all.

[GPR-A]

damn, i lost a post somewhere :/
Vettel did 30 laps on softs.
Anyone claiming "I know that softs won't hold for more than 10 laps", is doing just that - claiming. The proof is for the opposite.

They lasted for 30 laps on Vettel's car. The Ferrari doesn't have as much downforce so it's going to be kinder on its tires as a result.

Wow! Not having as much downforce helps the tire life! I heard that first here.

[godlameroso]

damn, i lost a post somewhere :/
Vettel did 30 laps on softs.
Anyone claiming "I know that softs won't hold for more than 10 laps", is doing just that - claiming. The proof is for the opposite.

They lasted for 30 laps on Vettel's car. The Ferrari doesn't have as much downforce so it's going to be kinder on its tires as a result.

Just today i read Binotto saying that due to lower downforce of Ferrari, their tyres slip more and tyres degrade faster
I guess the argument goes both ways

Think of it this way, a car with more downforce is going to carry more speed through a corner than one with less, that means more energy in the tire. That energy becomes dissipated as heat, but this type of heat and energy through the tire is different than when the tire is sliding due to over or under steer. The end result is the rear tires give way first, and then the fronts, whereas if you have more downforce, you not only have less sliding and more heat in the tires, but it's also easier to have the front wear be similar to rear wear which maintains car balance and predictability.

When the tires start degrading off a cliff it creates a very sudden change in balance if the rears wear out faster than the fronts, a car with more front downforce can keep that wear from biasing in the rear direction.

[godlameroso]

You guys seems to be the experts... Are you guys already been hired by RB, Mercedes, Ferrari or maybe McLaren.....
All, really ALL real experts agreed :
1. It was a masterstroke by Merc
2. Merc had more pace then the RB
3. RB could not win this battle, whatever you make of it....

But hey the guys at Sky F1 or the strategist at RB, Horner, Verstappen or Priestley know squad about F1.
You guys claiming it is possible are the real experts here

Honestly I would understand you guys if I was the only one telling you this, but doubting ppl that really know how it works..... Disappointing, I thought users here had more knowledge and understanding.
Don't miss understand me, I accept every bodies opinion but being so stubborn and even indirectly saying the experts are wrong.... Well mildly putted.... Disappointed

I'd agree with all but 3. Red Bull is very close, close enough that had Verstappen made that 2nd stop when the gap presented itself he would have finished ahead. You live and you learn.

There are a few positives to take, the car is good enough to challenge, it's slightly slower for now so a Verstappen win is all the more impressive. The team now knows that if you have a gap behind for a 2nd pit stop you take it ASAP, otherwise the goal is still to do the race with 1 stop.