2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[Big Tea]

Should Honda take the penalty in Spa? Why not like in 2017, have Albon take the penalty in Spa, and then Verstappen in Monza. I think a podium is definitely on the cards regardless of what happens, furthermore, Ferrari will be much more competitive at Spa, so a Mercedes victory is not a guarantee. There are exactly 3 corners where Mercedes has an advantage around Spa, and Ferrari's speed will more than make up for it. They're(Ferrari) likely to be very competitive in Monza as well.

Singapore will be very close, Russia is a big unknown, Mercedes will be very strong in sector 3. Japan is very similar to Silverstone in terms of what it demands of the car, although it's more punishing on the tires.

Knowing that the gap is so close, makes any update that can close said gap exciting. I honestly wouldn't mind watching things play out as they did in Hungary for the rest of the season, obviously with different results.

Two fierce rivals dueling at a stalemate until one genius tactical move makes all the difference. It makes great TV, almost like Initial D but better.

Dont' know whats is going to happen with engines now. Gasly has used 3 ans Albon has used 5, and we don't know what 'spec' each is. We could see some switching to get around things.


Status: Prior 2019 German GP
Driver Team Engine ICE TC MGU-H MGU-K ES CE
Alexander Albon Toro Rosso Honda 5 4 4 4 2 2
Pierre Gasly Red Bull Honda 3 3 3 2 2 2

[Marti_EF3]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

[Big Tea]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

I thought the allocation followed the driver? otherwise teams could swap drivers instead of a penalty?

[Wouter]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

The PU elements are attached to the car. So if Albon gets the new spec 4 in Monza (?) it wil be "his" 4th engine and also a penalty.

[Marti_EF3]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

I thought the allocation followed the driver? otherwise teams could swap drivers instead of a penalty?

But, If a driver goes into another team with different PU supplier, and that driver had 2 PU on the pool. How it's possible to get the same pool?? It's because of that I think the allocation may be on the 2 cars of the team, not the drivers

[Big Tea]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

I thought the allocation followed the driver? otherwise teams could swap drivers instead of a penalty?

But, If a driver goes into another team with different PU supplier, and that driver had 2 PU on the pool. How it's possible to get the same pool?? It's because of that I think the allocation may be on the 2 cars of the team, not the drivers

It was only an assumption on my part, I will accept your (and Wouter) version.

[lio007]

Yes, PU- elements are bound to the "yellow" and the "black" car of a team.
Not to a driver, driver number or car number.

[Big Tea]

Thanks guys, but what is to stop a driver swapping cars with a team mate if it would mean a penalty in an essential race? (if I am correct in thinking a car can have up to 4 drivers a year/)

Edit

Never mind, found it


Unless he drives for more than one team, each driver may use no more than three power units during a Championship season. The number will be increased by one for any driver using a power unit provided by a manufacturer or supplier taking part in their first Championship season.

More precisely, each driver can use three ICE, MGU-H and turbo and just two MGU-K, energy stores and control electronics.

Should a driver use more than four of any one of the elements during a Championship season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according to the following table and will be cumulative:

[etusch]

The PU elements are attached to the teams, no? I mean, the 2nd RBR car has used 3 PU. If Albon gets into that car, the elements used will be the same than Gasly. Same with Gasly on the STR. I don't know if it's like this or not, only guessing

I thought the allocation followed the driver? otherwise teams could swap drivers instead of a penalty?

But, If a driver goes into another team with different PU supplier, and that driver had 2 PU on the pool. How it's possible to get the same pool?? It's because of that I think the allocation may be on the 2 cars of the team, not the drivers

Now Gasly will use Albon's car. So he will keep going with those engines which are used with that car. Same for Albon too. I think it rule follows car and it's engines as you said. If we not consider in this way Gasly and Albon are starting using completely new extra parts by this swap.( In fact thats what really happening)
I wonder that will both team take new engine from start of second part.
By starting back Albon can show if it is right decision or not from the first race.

[lio007]

Thanks guys, but what is to stop a driver swapping cars with a team mate if it would mean a penalty in an essential race? (if I am correct in thinking a car can have up to 4 drivers a year/)

Edit

Never mind, found it


Unless he drives for more than one team, each driver may use no more than three power units during a Championship season. The number will be increased by one for any driver using a power unit provided by a manufacturer or supplier taking part in their first Championship season.

More precisely, each driver can use three ICE, MGU-H and turbo and just two MGU-K, energy stores and control electronics.

Should a driver use more than four of any one of the elements during a Championship season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according to the following table and will be cumulative:

AND, § 23.3.c from Sporting regs:

If a driver is replaced at any time during the Championship season his replacement will
be deemed to be the original driver for the purposes of assessing power unit usage.

[ringo]

I think redbull will have the upper hand in the high downforce corners from here on out. The car has been held back by using very conservatively small wings and still pretty much managing to be equally fast as mercedes in the medium speed. They will adjust to Honda now and should have the edge in the high downforce circuits. I see them scoring more points over the last half of the season than Mercedes. The RB15 will be the best car in the last 4 races.

They may have had less downforce but they also seem to have more drag compared to last year. That is what perhaps caught them out more than anything as it makes adding downforce tricky. Fortunately for them Merc seems to have the same issue although less tricky as they had grip from the start.

There are differences with the cars this year with the front wing. There was a bid to make it easier for the cars to follow by widening the wings and simplifying their structure. This made the cars have more drag. The RB15 wasn't really tweaked correctly till recently in terms of aero. I remember this being the case for a few seasons with redbull and them getting their cars to work properly. They always take a while to optimize a design feature when there is a rule change, and then they hone it and turn to best car on tyre management and downforce.
Last year we saw them become very strong in the last quarter. Strongest on tyre management, traction and cornering. Where they are always good from the start of the season is under braking.
Lewis doesn't have a straight forward second half coming up, i suspect the Redbulls will put up a strong fight with Max.

[diffuser]

I think redbull will have the upper hand in the high downforce corners from here on out. The car has been held back by using very conservatively small wings and still pretty much managing to be equally fast as mercedes in the medium speed. They will adjust to Honda now and should have the edge in the high downforce circuits. I see them scoring more points over the last half of the season than Mercedes. The RB15 will be the best car in the last 4 races.

They may have had less downforce but they also seem to have more drag compared to last year. That is what perhaps caught them out more than anything as it makes adding downforce tricky. Fortunately for them Merc seems to have the same issue although less tricky as they had grip from the start.

There are differences with the cars this year with the front wing. There was a bid to make it easier for the cars to follow by widening the wings and simplifying their structure. This made the cars have more drag. The RB15 wasn't really tweaked correctly till recently in terms of aero. I remember this being the case for a few seasons with redbull and them getting their cars to work properly. They always take a while to optimize a design feature when there is a rule change, and then they hone it and turn to best car on tyre management and downforce.
Last year we saw them become very strong in the last quarter. Strongest on tyre management, traction and cornering. Where they are always good from the start of the season is under braking.
Lewis doesn't have a straight forward second half coming up, i suspect the Redbulls will put up a strong fight with Max.

For get finishing 3ird or 4th at every race...He could take a 3 race break and probably still be ahead when he came back ..

[Capharol]

for those who critizied the way Red Bull handles there drivers.... read this piece

Also one way or another Red Bull’s good at providing soft landings for those discarded. Kvyat and Sainz remain in F1 (as do Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo of course). Jean-Eric Vergne has won the last two Formula E titles and is gainfully employed in LMP2. Sebastien Buemi has been kept on as a Red Bull tester plus has a brace of World Endurance Championships and Le Mans wins, plus an FE title of his own. Hartley also has two WEC titles and a Le Mans victory. Heck, next F1 weekend check out the Porsche Supercup and you’ll find Michael Ammermuller.

It’s something Marko has noticed. “We got a lot of criticism, which I would say is not fair because most of these drivers, 90% or more are in other categories,” he said. “Looking at the Spa 24 Hours or in DTM or LMP1 or Formula E. They all make [a living] out of it. What more can you expect from your life?”

And with this, it should not be forgotten that the Red Bull collective is not discarding Gasly altogether. He will finish the season in F1 at Toro Rosso, with an opportunity to re-establish himself at the top table, an opportunity it also gave to Kvyat (twice). On this measure, Red Bull can even be considered an outlier in its generosity.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/ ... um=twitter

[Wouter]

The RedBull Young Drivers Academy: How much Red Bull invested in their drivers.

https://www.business-sport.es/the-redbu ... rs-academy

[diffuser]

for those who critizied the way Red Bull handles there drivers.... read this piece

Also one way or another Red Bull’s good at providing soft landings for those discarded. Kvyat and Sainz remain in F1 (as do Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo of course). Jean-Eric Vergne has won the last two Formula E titles and is gainfully employed in LMP2. Sebastien Buemi has been kept on as a Red Bull tester plus has a brace of World Endurance Championships and Le Mans wins, plus an FE title of his own. Hartley also has two WEC titles and a Le Mans victory. Heck, next F1 weekend check out the Porsche Supercup and you’ll find Michael Ammermuller.

It’s something Marko has noticed. “We got a lot of criticism, which I would say is not fair because most of these drivers, 90% or more are in other categories,” he said. “Looking at the Spa 24 Hours or in DTM or LMP1 or Formula E. They all make [a living] out of it. What more can you expect from your life?”

And with this, it should not be forgotten that the Red Bull collective is not discarding Gasly altogether. He will finish the season in F1 at Toro Rosso, with an opportunity to re-establish himself at the top table, an opportunity it also gave to Kvyat (twice). On this measure, Red Bull can even be considered an outlier in its generosity.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/ ... um=twitter

SO now you confussing the redbull program and redbull. I would conside " the program" to be everything up to before they hit RBR. You could very well argue that Kvyat is still a driver inspite of redbulls best efforts. You could say that he's wasted 3 years because of mistreatment from redbull.

as far as Sainz he's distanced himself from RBR as soon as he could.