A different form of BoP

[JordanMugen]

I hate any form of BoP.

If BoP is not OK, why is 100m Euro historic bonus payment to Ferrari OK? It also makes the playing field unlevel!

[marmer]

I hate any form of BoP.

If BoP is not OK, why is 100m Euro historic bonus payment to Ferrari OK? It also makes the playing field unlevel!

Williams and McLaren also get huge payouts I don't see them winning races

[PlatinumZealot]

First, I'd like to state that I am against BoP in general. While it does provide a diverse grid allowing different cars being competitive in series like Blancpain, it goes against the spirit of F1 IMO.
However, we all see that prolonged periods of domination of one team and driver makes the audience decline, which, in turn, provokes the governing body to overreact and do a costly and ultimately ineffective rules shakeup.
So maybe there is a way to implement a form of BoP which would help to level a playing field a little bit, while not directly messing with a performance of the cars.
I am thinking about the 2006 season, where there were "young driver practices" to which only teams starting from 5th in the current CC standings were allowed (I may be wrong in the details). How about a limit on the practice running for the teams based on the results of the previous race and CC standing? For example, the leader only gets 5 laps in practice 1 and 10 in practice 2; second place is allowed 10 laps in practice 1 and 15 in practice 2. The current engine mileage rules would have to be adjusted probably, by maybe allowing separate practice-only drivetrain components.
As such the field should be closer, as the leaders will have a greater chance of missing the optimum setup. At the same time, best cars would still be the best cars.
This may create a problem on the new circuits, but exceptions can be made in such case.
So, what do you think?

PS BoP is bad.

I was taught in language class to use the full phrase before writing the acronym.

What is BoP?

[Just_a_fan]

Balance of Performance.

[izzy]

I was taught in language class to use the full phrase before writing the acronym.

What is BoP?

It means somebody is dead clever

[TAG]

In sports like Basketball, Baseball the teams with the worst records are allowed first round picks of the next gen athletes coming up through the system. Can't effectively copy that model for drivers but there's no reason why the FiA or F1 couldn't have a bucket of money available to the... let's say three bottom teams that would be a communal CFD, CAD and an extra test date or two throughout a season.

Something as simple as the bottom three teams from the previous year are allowed an extra test day at the beginning of the season and during the middle of the season, as well at the additional computer time. Simple, cheap and guaranteed results.

[timbo]

What is BoP?

Balance of Performance. A system implemented in various racing series where faster cars will get different handicaps, i.e. ballast, intake restrictors, ride height limits, etc.

[digitalrurouni]

I hate any form of BoP.

If BoP is not OK, why is 100m Euro historic bonus payment to Ferrari OK? It also makes the playing field unlevel!

It's not ok at all. I hate it. It should be removed. I have a feeling that will happen soon enough.

[marmer]

In sports like Basketball, Baseball the teams with the worst records are allowed first round picks of the next gen athletes coming up through the system. Can't effectively copy that model for drivers but there's no reason why the FiA or F1 couldn't have a bucket of money available to the... let's say three bottom teams that would be a communal CFD, CAD and an extra test date or two throughout a season.

Something as simple as the bottom three teams from the previous year are allowed an extra test day at the beginning of the season and during the middle of the season, as well at the additional computer time. Simple, cheap and guaranteed results.

Well if you bout a draft in F1 Williams would still have George as they where slowest last year and he was f2 champion

Would be interesting to see if it could be inforced that the f2 champion gets offered a drive at the last placed team that they can't refuse. To be fair to them though you would have to allow him to turn it down and not bother or if he has a better offer

[henry]

So long as the difference between cars is many times the difference between teammates putting better drivers in worse cars is doomed to failure.

[izzy]

So long as the difference between cars is many times the difference between teammates putting better drivers in worse cars is doomed to failure.

Yes, tho teammates are often quite similar to each other aren't they, and reflect the position of the team. What would be the gap between Lewis and Lance or Kmag as teammates?

Or going the other way, with the teams suppose Haas had Lewis and Max for example? Easy 4th!

[henry]

So long as the difference between cars is many times the difference between teammates putting better drivers in worse cars is doomed to failure.

Yes, tho teammates are often quite similar to each other aren't they, and reflect the position of the team. What would be the gap between Lewis and Lance or Kmag as teammates?

Or going the other way, with the teams suppose Haas had Lewis and Max for example? Easy 4th!

Seems likely that Lewis would outperform both in qualifying, but Lance is strong in races it might depend where in the midfield scrum they are.

The Haas team don’t understand how to make their car work, it seems very unlikely that changing the drivers would fix that.

If the purpose of BOP is to make it possible for more drivers to show their relative skills and compete for the WDC then an alternative is to balance the drivers opportunities, BODO, by having them drive a different car every race. I suggested this in this thread viewtopic.php?p=605270#p605270. It would continue to matter to the teams, and their sponsors, which car/team was best, but that wouldn’t simply convert to the WDC which it does today.

[Big Tea]

So long as the difference between cars is many times the difference between teammates putting better drivers in worse cars is doomed to failure.

Yes, tho teammates are often quite similar to each other aren't they, and reflect the position of the team. What would be the gap between Lewis and Lance or Kmag as teammates?

Or going the other way, with the teams suppose Haas had Lewis and Max for example? Easy 4th!

Seems likely that Lewis would outperform both in qualifying, but Lance is strong in races it might depend where in the midfield scrum they are.

The Haas team don’t understand how to make their car work, it seems very unlikely that changing the drivers would fix that.

If the purpose of BOP is to make it possible for more drivers to show their relative skills and compete for the WDC then an alternative is to balance the drivers opportunities, BODO, by having them drive a different car every race. I suggested this in this thread viewtopic.php?p=605270#p605270. It would continue to matter to the teams, and their sponsors, which car/team was best, but that wouldn’t simply convert to the WDC which it does today.

I also think many would be surprised by Lance if he had a front running car. He is not in the same class as Hamilton Max and co, but he could drive a solid race from a top 6 position and be a consistent scorer, possibly podium regular.

[izzy]

So long as the difference between cars is many times the difference between teammates putting better drivers in worse cars is doomed to failure.

Yes, tho teammates are often quite similar to each other aren't they, and reflect the position of the team. What would be the gap between Lewis and Lance or Kmag as teammates?

Or going the other way, with the teams suppose Haas had Lewis and Max for example? Easy 4th!

Seems likely that Lewis would outperform both in qualifying, but Lance is strong in races it might depend where in the midfield scrum they are.

The Haas team don’t understand how to make their car work, it seems very unlikely that changing the drivers would fix that.

If the purpose of BOP is to make it possible for more drivers to show their relative skills and compete for the WDC then an alternative is to balance the drivers opportunities, BODO, by having them drive a different car every race. I suggested this in this thread viewtopic.php?p=605270#p605270. It would continue to matter to the teams, and their sponsors, which car/team was best, but that wouldn’t simply convert to the WDC which it does today.

DaDCER? ) it's great in WSeries. But it does all depend what we're trying to measure, personally i like the complexity of the team+driver combo in F1. The top drivers get picked by the top teams anyway and vice-versa

[izzy]

The Haas team don’t understand how to make their car work, it seems very unlikely that changing the drivers would fix that.

yes not saying I'm sure, but I feel even Haas with so few engineers would make better headway with top drivers, who can do things with the car to heat or cool the tyres, and also give better feedback. As it is you get the impression the poor Haas engineers just get a lot of moaning

so my point really is that yes there's a huge delta between the top and bottom teams, but some of that is the drivers, as well as the cars. It's supposed to be a meritocracy, and an awful lot is the same for all the teams - power unit/transmission (that's huge), wind tunnel hours/CFD, materials, brakes, tyres etc etc