Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
I don't know where the FIA got their data that run-offs everywhere are better than gravel traps! Are they waiting to see what will happen to someone when a car's brakes fail at the end of big straight??
Had there been gravel where Hubert left the track, he would have not only avoided coming back towards the track but also Correa wouldn't have the chance to take the run-off and hit him!!
Not to mention that the dust from the gravel from those going off would alert the ones coming to slow down!
Maybe it's time for FIA to go back to gravel traps and not worry about the track getting dirty as someone said in a driver's briefing!!
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis
No matter what we say or do, it won't bring Hubert back.
That said, it is paramount that lessons are taken from this to prevent another accident, even if it's a freak accident.
some things indeed to take from this weekend are the way crashes etc. are handled.
There were a variety of things that i think rather surprised me, not just F2.
Indeed, when things went wrong with Alesi, there should have been immediate yellow.
It took a while for yellow to appear. Matter of fact, i can't even recall whether i saw yellow at all and
whether it didn't turn to red flag immediately after the fact.
I don't remember seeing yellow flags at all despite a few cars trying to drive through in between the wreckages.
perhaps i remember wrongly, but if that was the case, then that's unacceptable imho.
Would it have prevented the deadly accident? i don't think so, BUT, even though things went down very fast,
and whilst coming up through eau rouge you cannot see what is happening at the top, i must say, after alesi's contact, there should have been immediate yellow. If that happened, then hubert getting in the wall probably was not avoidable anyway, BUT, surely, by the time hubert hit the wall, there SHOULD have been (double waved) yellow.
it's just fractions of an instant and miliseconds to react, but then again, these drivers operate in miliseconds.
PERHAPS, it would have caused sufficient warning for multiple drivers, not just correa, but in this case correa was an important factor, to then slow down and be prepared. in this case, it seems as like correa did a manouvre to avoid contact with debris - which he didn't expect at all due to the non-presense of yellow flags - only to then end up at the wrong place at the wrong time, on the runoff area where hubert just popped up in front of him.
i honestly wonder, if there would have been yellow, would that have been enough to slow down correa and be prepared for on-track (and off-track) dangers? you just don't expect something like that when there's no warning.
whether he could have slowed down enough remains to be seen. but perhaps he would have atleast been more aware for dangers, and thus capable to avoid collision with hubert, and perhaps, instead, better, the wall.
again, it won't bring hubert back but it should be taken into account to think about these things.
if i see the video, you see commentators commenting on the incident before the camera pans from eau rouge to radillion, seeing the start of the carnage, and THEN you see hubert getting impaled by correa.
in my opinion, i think that was sufficient time for double yellow to pop up and as such, just enough time for drivers to pay MORE attention to what's happening.
so i think that's where things should start to improve safety.
second, runoff area/walls need to be placed further away, with potentially between that tarmac runoff and the wall sufficient gravel traps to furhter catch and slow down a car. also, the way the fences are shaped it rather 'helps' cars return to the track, not a good thing imho.
third, something to think about, is cockpit protection. and i'm talking here in the case of correa, not hubert. a thing to think about is, WHAT if, added to the halo, was an indycar like aeroscreen, to further protect drivers from dangerous flying objects. if that was present, then would correa had the same motivation (i understand instinctive responses do influence a lot though) to steer away into the runoff area? would he kept driving straight into that debris? i don't think so as i believe anybody no matter what the circumstances would try to avoid hitting any debris, but IF that would have been the case, then correa never would have ended up full-speed into the runoff area.
which takes me to the final, fourth issue, and that is honestly, how is it possible that it has no repercussions (well, it did, but you got my grip i hope) to go out to the runoff area? that in itself makes it possible to go fullspeed through the runoff, which causes the elements in place for what happened saturday.
if there would have been some sort of minor 'bumps' (not those that send cars flying) that severly slow cars down and potentially damage tires/bodywork from vibration, then at the very very least, cars would AVOID ending up on the runoff area and the runoff area becomes what its intended to do: use as a means to avoid a crash.
it would first of all demotivate any driver to get on that runoff area.
the only way to do that then is to not go in full-speed if the circumstances won't allow it to.
and whilst typing a realise something else remains: the halo got detached during the - i believe - initial crash. or am i mistaken and was the halo 'only' destroyed after contact with correa? even though it remains trivial and doubtfull that a halo would have saved hubert, that doesn't take away the fact that it was gone. hell, half of the F2 car was torn apart. yes, the crash was extremely violent, but, i think that also needs investigation as to how that was possible.
if these five points are adressed, i'm pretty confident that an incident like this is becoming almost impossible to reoccur.
that safety issues ARE working in formula classes,is clear. and even though this accident ended up being fatal, it's still clear that there are things working. first of all, correa is still alive and breathing and can even think. at the first moment i feared the lives of both, even though correa's hands could been seen moving. dude ended upside down too. second of all, even though hubert's car was torn in half, and he was hinging half out of the car, hubert hit him on the side full speed. as gruesome as it sounds, it's amazing that limbs weren't torn or ripped off during that contact, or that correa didn't actually drive literally through his body. i don't know the total amount of injury hubert sustained. it must have been significant anyways, but even then, his body was intact, and even though his car was in pieces, the basic monocoque was intact - meaning, he wasn't thrown out of the car completely.
that this is possible for a full speed collision AFTER that same car SURELY got critical damage after slamming nearly full speed into the wall, is utterly amazing.
that said,
i am somewhat surprised about the entire weekend and it actually reminded me somewhat of imola 1994, which i saw happening live. the death of ratzenberger, the violent crash of barrichello (could have ended up dead just the same) and then Senna. everything went wrong that weekend, and a lot went similar this weekend @ Spa.
Senna didn't want to drive that sunday but still did. MANY drivers didn't want to this sunday, one whom voiced that publicly being Daniel Ricciardo. Ingredients present for similar dangerous circumstances and elements.
Verstappen's first-corner incident imho is just that, a first corner incident, but to me, that he then didn't simply park his car but actually went FAST into eau rouge to me was bonkers and i personally believe a clear example of a influenced state of mind and focus. Before even reaching the chicane you could see that he steered almost full opposite lock and nothing happened. STILL, he kept driving, he didn't throw in the anchors, but rather started braking after he got offtrack. imagine if another car was passing him that same moment. Matter of fact, he almost collected Raikkonen there - shivers down my spine what might have happened had contact occurred.
but again, it shows clearly that Max was influenced. Hell, who wouldn't. Look at Hamilton's face when seeing the hubert crash live whilst being interviewed. You could see it all over his face that he knew that incident was more than just BAD.
the F2 race was cancelled, rightly so. but it leaves a deep mark and scar on ALL drivers, not just the F2 drivers.
Sky claiming F1 drivers are more matured and can handle it better is imho bull. It only provokes more feelings, feelings very much that remind a good amount of F1 drivers of Bianchi.
The F3 race was also concidered to be canceled, but went on. That one had a crash too. Not too serious in the end, but i do wonder just as much if that very incident isn't also caused by drivers PHYSICALLY UNABLE to be 100% focused.
And that, very much also, influences how the F1 race would go down.
It's rather a miracle that nothing bad happened. Since i can't see the races live due to conflicting job times, i have to download. But this was the first time i ever had where i actually literally sat down and pauzed right in front of the start whether i wanted to actually see the race, and what might happen. Again, it had all the elements of Imola 1994.
And yes, i was pretty much unpleasantly surprised that there wasn't a VSC or safety car in the last lap. We just lost a life, a supposedly exciting 'leclerc hamilton' fight doesn't weigh up to the dangers of losing yet another life as happened with Bianchi and Hubert. Besides, it's far from the first time and it won't be the last time something happens in the last lap to cause yellow flags or something alike which 'robs' us of some theoretical final corner action.
as if robbing us an all out final corner battle is more important than robbing somebody's life.
Again - nothing we can do brings Hubert back.
But, i honestly hope this young talent's life does not get lost in vain.
And, as much as i enjoy the return on the F1 calender of a legendary circuit:
How much of a danger is Zandvoort going to be next year?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
I don't know where the FIA got their data that run-offs everywhere are better than gravel traps! Are they waiting to see what will happen to someone when a car's brakes fail at the end of big straight??
Had there been gravel where Hubert left the track, he would have not only avoided coming back towards the track but also Correa wouldn't have the chance to take the run-off and hit him!!
Not to mention that the dust from the gravel from those going off would alert the ones coming to slow down!
Maybe it's time for FIA to go back to gravel traps and not worry about the track getting dirty as someone said in a driver's briefing!!
We don't know that. In 2001 Luciano Burti had huge crash after a contact with Ervine. The gravel didn't slow him much, and you can see the front wheels leaving the ground. Schumacher in 1999 also had a high speed accident in place with gravel trap, i dont' think it was very effective.
There needs to be an automated crash alert system for drivers. They all have screens in front of them, surely they can devise a way that when some part of a car ahead breaks in an impact it immediately flashes on everyone dashboard; an auditory alert would be even better. Simply relying on marshals to wave flags is patently ineffective.
It is, and there are a few additional issues;
If the yellow flag - warning is automatically activated, you have no idea how big the incident is, it could just be a subsecond wheel-over-the-line warning (95% of the time it is). Especially in Raidillon, you can't see what's actually going on, so you still don't know if and how to act, and if most of the time it's a false flag, drivers will ignore it quickly.
If it would be some "severe incident ahead" special warning (double-yellow?), that involves human judgement trigger the alarm. And the chain of events in this case was too fast for human judgement to be effective. And still, it would not tell you whether to go left or right, or if the incident is right ahead or at les combes or so (in this case).
Practically, I see very few options for an effective warning system that could have avoided this tragedy. To me, it seems more logical to make circuit adjustments that reduce the odds of this unfortunate chain of events, rather than attempting such a warning system.
Manoah2u there was a youtube still which was promptly removed after 4hrs, which i did not look twice at and im glad it was taken down.
This accident would have been horrific for the track marshalls to digest.
Manoah2u there was a youtube still which was promptly removed after 4hrs, which i did not look twice at and im glad it was taken down.
This accident would have been horrific for the track marshalls to digest.
i assume you are talking then about injuries to hubert sustained from the crash?
POLICE in Belgium have launched a manslaughter inquiry into the tragic death of F2 driver Anthoine Hubert.
And the sport's governing body, the FIA, have opened a separate investigation into Saturday's 150mph crash.
It is standard practice in Belgium to start a probe into any fatal road accident and does not in itself imply criminal charges are likely.
i think it's good that authoroties themselves are involved with an investigation aswell. even though there's nobody really to blame here, having government motivating investigations makes sure there is real attention paid to what happened and as such, more potential to come to a decision for safety improvement. i don't know why this article cleams a 150mph impact while all other articles i have seen mentioned 170mph. not that it really matters much, but, to be honest, it just caught my attention.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
I don't know where the FIA got their data that run-offs everywhere are better than gravel traps! Are they waiting to see what will happen to someone when a car's brakes fail at the end of big straight??
Had there been gravel where Hubert left the track, he would have not only avoided coming back towards the track but also Correa wouldn't have the chance to take the run-off and hit him!!
Not to mention that the dust from the gravel from those going off would alert the ones coming to slow down!
Maybe it's time for FIA to go back to gravel traps and not worry about the track getting dirty as someone said in a driver's briefing!!
Had there been gravel, Correa probably would have stayed on track and then crashed into the slow-moving Boschung - just like Hubert did because he couldn't see what happened behind the crest. Putting gravel next to the track would have produced cars with massive speed differences on track because no driver would have put their cars into the gravel voluntarily (not only would gravel end their race, but at those speeds also make their cars uncontrollable and a crash with the barriers likely).
And needless to say, the dust you are claiming would be able to alert the oncoming drivers is useless behind the crest.
I also don't think Correa drove onto the asphalt-run-off intentionally; he seems to have lost his front wing just like Hubert prior to crashing into him. Maybe some of the debris Alesi's barrier contact left behind is to blame for that.
I think the real culprit here is the barriers deflecting both Hubert's and Alesi's car back, but let's wait for the results of the FIA investigation.
Really good insight here Peter Windsor about one of the fundamental issues the sport needs to look at as the underlying aspect to prevent these types of tragic accidents.
The fatal crash happend in the runoff area, where it should be safe to avoid any hazard on track, that's why it's called the run-off... that the barriers are so close there that you crash in that area, is the main problem. With the barriers at least 10 meters further back, there would be no problem. This is one of the fastest corner combination on the calendar, having barriers so close, is just asking for trouble.
Gravel, etc, in a run off area only would make it more dangerous.
