2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[Restomaniac]

Yeah, this is really a disgrace.

IMO, all who did not cross the line in time should be penalized on the base of putting the sport into disrepute. The FIA clearly stated they'd give penalties for being unnecessarily slow and they actually applied those in F3. If they don't do the same here, they will lose a lot of credibility with the youngsters.

How does that make sense? After Hulk, then Stroll/Sainz crawled through the first chicane it was going to be impossible for at least some to not make it.

They all left the pits with enough time, but the games at the front sealed it.

The entire grid left with only 40 seconds grace (and that’s when driving flat out) with the gaps they all want and tyre prep they would all need meant that plenty would have missed the line anyway. They all need to own this.

[RZS10]

Yeah, this is really a disgrace.

IMO, all who did not cross the line in time should be penalized on the base of putting the sport into disrepute. The FIA clearly stated they'd give penalties for being unnecessarily slow and they actually applied those in F3. If they don't do the same here, they will lose a lot of credibility with the youngsters.

The problem is that Vettels time was not deleted, since he drove off the track in the same way as Albon did. Albon lost it, Vettel as far as i know will keep it. The whole decision making and rule enforcing is a farce.

There was a replay showing he barely touched the white line with his front right tyre, so technically he was within limits. I think.

Did he though? It's not that clear from those images and if they don't have any other camera angles then it's quite questionable how they enforce the track limits there - it was probably rather a "maybe he was still in?" combined with them not having the balls to scrap his time for obvious reasons

I'm waiting for HD video material to put some lines on the car and wheels because i don't trust the low res screenshot that is going around on twitter (whether it's the proper frame + bad quality)

[matt_b]

There is a picture on social media showing all 4 tyres over the white line but they will brush it under the carpet as its in monza and because the qualifying farce is a nice little smokescreen too.

Mind posting it then?

turbof1 just did below your reply.

[turbof1]

The problem is that Vettels time was not deleted, since he drove off the track in the same way as Albon did. Albon lost it, Vettel as far as i know will keep it. The whole decision making and rule enforcing is a farce.

There was a replay showing he barely touched the white line with his front right tyre, so technically he was within limits. I think.

Did he though? It's not that clear from those images and if they don't have any other camera angles then it's quite questionable how they enforce the track limits there - it was probably rather a "maybe he was still in?" combined with them not having the balls to scrap his time for obvious reasons

I'm waiting for HD video material to put some lines on the car and wheels because i don't trust the low res screenshot that is going around on twitter (whether it's the proper frame + bad quality)

Looks like he didn't "touch". His tyre is outer edge is hanging over the white line. What are the rules in tennis and soccer about that?

[NathanOlder]

Im one of Vettels biggest critics , but looking at this, is the front right over the line ? if it was possible to look at this directly from above, I think there would be no gap between the tyre and the white line. So Im not sure how to call it.

screw it, take his lap away lol

[hollus]

Vettel´s "out" is VAR stuff indeed. In soccer he would be in the track. In tennis he would be out of it. That's because the contact patch is out, but parts of his tire are (probably) over the vertical of the white line. So in soccer he would be "in the line". No goal!

Example:

I bet in F1 they never though of it, even in in (was it 2004?) The (Michelin?) tires were deemed illegal for flexing too much and making the cars too wide.

Regarding whether some cars were blocking the track: track limits means that 2 wheels on the line is in, so arguably there was plenty of space for any brave soul to pass the whole train either left or right. Norris pulled an iconic, fantastic pass earlier this year doing exactly that, using a piece of asphalt that was less than a car´s width.

This is "in", so there was plenty of space:

[RZS10]

as i wrote ... quality is too poor


even by football rules it's marginal and that's why i think they said "we can't really tell > no penalty"

[cooken]

He's in a right hander which means the deformed shape of the tire should help keep the outer edge closer to the line no? But also looks like the camber/roll/etc more than negates that.

[foxmulder_ms]

I loved it. It was hilarious to see this. I am not being sarcastic. I really enjoyed it. I like stuff like this. Hope they do not try to change anything because I love the qualifying format.

[NathanOlder]

Vettel´s "out" is VAR stuff indeed. In soccer he would be in the track. In tennis he would be out of it. That's because the contact patch is out, but parts of his tire are (probably) over the vertical of the white line. So in soccer he would be "in the line". No goal!

He is in , if indeed we could see from above to see if theres a gap, impossible to tell from that photo.

[jz11]

https://twitter.com/EliGP/status/117033 ... 21031?s=20

So ehh, can we get VAR in here?

the wheels shadow is clearly on the line, no wheel - no shadow, so shadow must be considered part of the wheel! there - fight this logic!

on a serious note - if this will be considered as being within the track limits, it is because viewing it from right above the car, the wheel/rim is still on the line even if the unloaded part of the width of the tyres tread isn't in contact with the white line, from the angles I've seen so far, 50/50...

[MtthsMlw]

[dans79]

It's ok to disagree. I also somewhat understand your viewpoint, but IMO they all are responsible for the mess. They all went out the last moment and they all were doing the "after you! No please, after you!" game. That's on all of them and they should be penalized for it. Only Sainz knew where that was going. EDIT: well, maybe Sainz should also be punished in hindsight.

When you go out literally doesn't matter, you are allowed to go out and take a slop lap as long as you are above the medium speed. However, you cannot block other drivers.

This is right as hulk decided to go strait, and should probably be a penalty, as he was crawling, and thus left the track unnecessarily. Notice the distance back to Hamilton just exiting the pits.



Stroll and Sainz have now slowed to a crawl, because they don't want to pass Hulk. Since he was navigating the foam they should have passed him easily.



Stroll eventually gives way and now Hulk and Sainz are playing the moving road block. Look at how much Lewis & Ric has closed up on the guys in front.


Hulk, Sainz, and Stroll should all get penalties as they literally made it impossible for the guys behind to complete thew lap at a reasonable speed. Even bottas in on thin ice, as exiting turn 2 he slowed way down and tucked in behind stroll.

[turbof1]

He's in a right hander which means the deformed shape of the tire should help keep the outer edge closer to the line no? But also looks like the camber/roll/etc more than negates that.

Can you imagine being a steward having to review this? I really feel for the guys having to decide about this.

[f1316]

It seems to me that Ferrari and Mercedes were both running a fairly large (for Monza) read wing, with Ferrari’s fractionally larger.

I wonder if that’s all about keeping the tyre in during the race? Seemed like in Spa the issue for Ferrari was too much sliding due to lower downforce and Charles mentioned that race sim looked better here - could be part of the reason?

Equally, I think it could partly explain Ricciardo being so close - very skinny rear wing which is probably good over a single lap (and less dependant on a tow) but probably not as good tyre preservation for the race.