Changes To Qualifying

[Just_a_fan]

What's not to like?

The idea that "lots of overtaking"="high quality racing".

I don't understand why people think that a good race is one with lots of overtaking. The best races are those with battling. That's the cut and thrust of attacking attempts and defending. Would Monza have been a good race if Hamilton had breezed past Leclerc? No, it was a good race because they battled for many laps.

Having the reverse grid system is more likely to give a merely competent driver in a decent car the title, unless the cars are taken out of the equation by being a single make series. The title should go to the best. Unless the cars are designed to allow close following, the guys at the back have no chance, no matter how good they are. That requires a single make series. Formula 1, as a prototype racing series, will have to be replaced by just a faster F2/F3 series. Is that what we want?

[izzy]

What's not to like?

The idea that "lots of overtaking"="high quality racing".

I don't understand why people think that a good race is one with lots of overtaking. The best races are those with battling. That's the cut and thrust of attacking attempts and defending. Would Monza have been a good race if Hamilton had breezed past Leclerc? No, it was a good race because they battled for many laps.

Having the reverse grid system is more likely to give a merely competent driver in a decent car the title, unless the cars are taken out of the equation by being a single make series. The title should go to the best. Unless the cars are designed to allow close following, the guys at the back have no chance, no matter how good they are. That requires a single make series. Formula 1, as a prototype racing series, will have to be replaced by just a faster F2/F3 series. Is that what we want?

Oh I agree a race long duel is great racing, and overtaking isn't everything. Strategy, tension... But qualifying starts the race in speed order, it's always been that basic problem. Originally it was for safety.

Now Lewis, Max, Charles, will still be together on track, racing, but they HAVE to overtake lots of other cars at the same time. Probably they'll get part way up in the Saturday race and be trying to finish off on Sunday. Without incidents. Teams will have to design cars to follow.

If a midfielder wins the first race he'll start at the back for the second race, and so on. So it'll balance out and over the season the best racer will win, even more so than now. It'll be closer and incredibly exciting.

[El Scorchio]

Current format is just fine. Should leave it as it is, with an option to tweak or enforce additional clauses to avoid repeats of Monza.

Not 100% against a sprint race idea and it brings some intriguing possibilities but all it really does is opens the door to title contenders and those in faster cars to get involved in accidents that may well not be their fault when trying to overtake the Magnussens of this world. And what does happen if someone crashes out or retires? Starting the full race from the back is far too harsh a penalty. Luck will become more of a deciding factor and do we want that?

It also puts a ridiculous premium on just overtaking and I’m sure will lead to more situations and incidents like Leclerc / Hamilton in Monza with over aggressive or clumsy/stupid defending, risky overtaking options with drivers trying everything to frantically get to the front as quick as possible even if it’s not really on, and probably a lot more incidents and crashes- and how do they get stewarded? It’s already unsatisfactory. Would we want to live with the possibility of exponentially more incidents for them to have to deal with?

Not to mention ‘junior’ teams really come into play. The old argument about whether a Haas or an Alfa are in any way going to defend against a Ferrari vs any other cars or a Toro Rosso vs a Red Bull will be in full flow, because that is bound to happen.

[zac510]

If you want to know what a reverse grid is now, we already have lots of examples in current racing when a driver has to start from the back because of an engine penalty.

The current Formula E qualifying approach is a bit more of an equalizer - forcing the championship leaders to go out on a green track and backmarkers on the rubbered-in track.

[Just_a_fan]

If a midfielder wins the first race he'll start at the back for the second race, and so on. So it'll balance out and over the season the best racer will win, even more so than now. It'll be closer and incredibly exciting.

Will the qualifying race carry points? If so, will they be worth the same as the "real" race? If the qualifying race only determines position without points, the teams will do what they did at Monza - all try to be last.

If the qualifying race carries points, then it's just a race and not qualifying. If it carries the same points as the "real" race, then the championship is being played with by the TPTB to create a false show. The championship will be determined not by coming first in races but by coming more often than not in a strong points position. Teams will figure out that finishing at some point (probably just off the podium) at each race gives the best season-long result.

Sorry, it's a stupid idea that should be killed off now.

[Just_a_fan]

If the aim of this silly idea is to get people watching F1, then just get F1 back on free-to-air TV. With some many countries now having F1 behind pay walls, F1 is always going to struggle to get people watching. Bernie's money-grabbing plan to sell TV rights to Sky et al for large fees was pure short termism.

[wesley123]

This has got to be the dumbest idea yet. I'm very sure they'll come up with some more, but for now this is the dumbest yet.

It is called qualifying because you try to qualify for a position on the start grid for sunday. All racing for position will do is give the top teams many more PUs over the course of the season, because why wouldn't they add a fresh PU to the pool if they start at the back of the grid anyways?

[izzy]

Will the qualifying race carry points? If so, will they be worth the same as the "real" race? If the qualifying race only determines position without points, the teams will do what they did at Monza - all try to be last.

If the qualifying race carries points, then it's just a race and not qualifying. If it carries the same points as the "real" race, then the championship is being played with by the TPTB to create a false show. The championship will be determined not by coming first in races but by coming more often than not in a strong points position. Teams will figure out that finishing at some point (probably just off the podium) at each race gives the best season-long result.

Sorry, it's a stupid idea that should be killed off now.

i don't think everything is decided but afaik the plan is that the Sunday race will be started in the finishing order of the Saturday race. No points for Saturday just the grid slot. Points on Sunday as usual.

So the racers will be racing for the best position they can manage, on Saturday and on Sunday. Everybody will be doing their best.

[izzy]

This has got to be the dumbest idea yet. I'm very sure they'll come up with some more, but for now this is the dumbest yet.

It is called qualifying because you try to qualify for a position on the start grid for sunday. All racing for position will do is give the top teams many more PUs over the course of the season, because why wouldn't they add a fresh PU to the pool if they start at the back of the grid anyways?

if they use an extra PU they'll start at the back on Sunday, same as now

[Just_a_fan]

Will they allow the teams extra PUs and gearboxes? Adding a whole load of extra racing laps means these components will be stressed for longer than now.

The whole thing is stupid. You do well so you're forced to face higher risks in order to try to get back to the front. In effect the FIA is trying to keep all of the drivers at about the same points for the whole season. Is entirely artificial and I won't be watching it if they implement it.

[wesley123]

This has got to be the dumbest idea yet. I'm very sure they'll come up with some more, but for now this is the dumbest yet.

It is called qualifying because you try to qualify for a position on the start grid for sunday. All racing for position will do is give the top teams many more PUs over the course of the season, because why wouldn't they add a fresh PU to the pool if they start at the back of the grid anyways?

if they use an extra PU they'll start at the back on Sunday, same as now

Indeed, that's the problem. If championship leaders are still at the back of race 1, they might as well introduce a new PU to the pool, whereas in current situation they wouldn't since they qualify in the front. End result being that championship contenders get much, much fresher engines every race with which they'll have much more performance.

[Fulcrum]

I think they'll do it this season as soon as the decision becomes less contentious. I.e. once the Driver's and Constructor's Championships have been decided, up to a certain depth (probably 3rd place). Possibly with some financial incentive from those teams who could still be affected by this change.

This won't be a decision for the purists, so no surprises if a lot of people on this forum dislike the idea.

[izzy]

Indeed, that's the problem. If championship leaders are still at the back of race 1, they might as well introduce a new PU to the pool, whereas in current situation they wouldn't since they qualify in the front. End result being that championship contenders get much, much fresher engines every race with which they'll have much more performance.

well Race1 is going to be 100km so if Lewis/Max/Charles can't make up any places in that time then a new PU isn't going to save them and nobody will care!

The idea is they'll make it up to 8th or whatever in Race1, they won't want to start all over again from the back.

[graham.reeds]

This has got to be the dumbest idea yet. I'm very sure they'll come up with some more, but for now this is the dumbest yet.

Surely the qualifying they did for two races 4(?) years ago was dumber than this?

[TimW]

They keep insisting on changing the one thing in the sport that doesn't need changing.

Fully agree. I don't understand the fuzz about the Monza qualifying. Bit of poker and many lost out. So they'll take a bit less risk next time. I love seeing these kind of tactical games.