Changes To Qualifying

[ncx]

I wouldn't like Qualifying to be scrapped. I find quali laps very good to watch, a different kind of spectacle from the race. However, I would like that some changes be made in order to avoid impeding and slip-stream tricks... ahem... clever strategies.

Maybe, make the cars leave the pit-lane at a regular time interval from each other. As the exit order may favour some drivers over others, let the drivers choose their respective slots in reverse WDC order. Depending on weather or other factors, it may be more advantageous to start the lap early, or late, or in whatever middle slot. The WDC leader will have to make do with the only slot that remains at the end. Ideally all drivers should have the possibility to get at least 3 hot laps, maybe with Q made of 3 sessions. If this would make Q a little longer, then be it, more fun (and more ads/rights money). This procedure may result in mixing things up a little bit without resorting to some more unpalatable randomness to "spice up" the race, though it wouldn't be the revolution some seem to want.

With the great difficulty in overtaking due to cars and tracks, the propensity of some drivers to shove others off, the likelihood of some drivers to crash out and take somebody else with them, combined with the fastest cars being in the back and the likely "agreements" between A, B and C teams, I'm not keen on the introduction of a sprint race on Saturday even if the usual Q is not removed.

[JordanMugen]

Does anyone really think that the guys starting at the back will be able to make real progress through the field at many of the tracks? Then factor in the aggressive defending exhibited by half of the grid and you have a recipe for GP weekends to turn in to demolition derbies. You want that? Go watch NASCAR.

Reverse grids work well to generate fantastic action in the BTCC.

In effect, we'll have a season-long attempt to be not-first such as we had during Monza's Q3 mess.

Don't be silly. Points are still points and you will want to collect as many as possible whenever in the season. There would be no great advantage for a championship challenger to starting 18th instead of 20th in the qualifying race.

[Just_a_fan]

Reverse grids work well to generate fantastic action in the BTCC.

So does bumping in to each other, pushing each other off track etc.

Oh, and F1 isn't BTCC. If it was, it'd be called BTCC and not F1.

[Just_a_fan]

Honestly at the rate they're going I'm just going to stop watching F1, as it seems most won't be happy until it's as random and chaotic as absolutely possible.

TPTB are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Sure, improve the racing (by which I mean the ability to get close to each other) by technical means as proposed for 2021, but don't make artificial changes such as proposed on a whim because of one incident in one qualifying session.

[turbof1]

It's an issue born from an era where unreliability and lack of telemetry would lead to chaotic racing. That created great racing because teams and drivers had to deal with a lot more unknowns and uncertaintities.

It's probably impossible to completely go back to that now without creating artificial racing. Take away sensors and they'll find a way to decrease margins and increase testing procedures beforehand. Take away car telemetry to the pit wall and they'll just educate drivers to the point of them being on board engineers. Go back to 1 engine/race and they'll finetune the margins so that the engine lasts exactly that race.

You can try though. I don't see anything wrong with for instance taking away pitwall telemetry. Let the driver fix their own problems.

Changing qualifying though to do a reverse grid? No, I don't like that. Keeping a ball the longest up in the air without it touching the ground to determine your starting position is even a better idea than that.

[damager21]

I would lovet o see MotoGP kind qualifying. Also, number of available tyre set per driver makes top guys do limited runs making things a bit boring. I think having 3 additional tyre set for the final qualifying session with minimum speed limit will make it more exciting. Hopefully no repeat of what we saw in Italy

[El Scorchio]

There are going to be so many more crashes as people try moves and divebombs which aren't really on in order to pass as many cars as possible, while the (slower) cars in front defend very robustly to keep their positions, without of course having any blue flags to make them move aside. My prediction is that Verstappen and Vettel particularly are going to have a lot of incidents. The onus will flip from who is the best/fastest driver to who is willing to take the most risks and be the luckiest to get away with them. There will inevitably be big trains of cars following each other the whole time, and I certainly think it'll make the sport less safe than now.

It'll be a huge mess for the stewards to sort out every race. Which is handy, seen as they are so good at handling that stuff now...

This is a huge overreaction to one isolated incident in Monza, which could easily be fixed in a less extreme way, and a desperate attempt to randomise results. It's clearly driven by a commercial need too- to sell more tickets at a higher price (and also increase TV viewing numbers) for race Saturdays. The only interesting thing I see is how it may change the challenge for the designers of the cars.

I'd imagine this will have been dropped after less than a year, if it's adopted.

[loner]

current Qualifying is just fine its awesome, if it necessary try to make the top teams use the slowest tyres in whole Q 1,2,3 and give all other teams the fastest tyres if it make any sense or just leave Qualifying alone it just alright as it is.

[ENGINE TUNER]

There are going to be so many more crashes as people try moves and divebombs which aren't really on in order to pass as many cars as possible, while the (slower) cars in front defend very robustly to keep their positions, without of course having any blue flags to make them move aside. My prediction is that Verstappen and Vettel particularly are going to have a lot of incidents. The onus will flip from who is the best/fastest driver to who is willing to take the most risks and be the luckiest to get away with them. There will inevitably be big trains of cars following each other the whole time, and I certainly think it'll make the sport less safe than now.

It'll be a huge mess for the stewards to sort out every race. Which is handy, seen as they are so good at handling that stuff now...

This is a huge overreaction to one isolated incident in Monza, which could easily be fixed in a less extreme way, and a desperate attempt to randomise results. It's clearly driven by a commercial need too- to sell more tickets at a higher price (and also increase TV viewing numbers) for race Saturdays. The only interesting thing I see is how it may change the challenge for the designers of the cars.

I'd imagine this will have been dropped after less than a year, if it's adopted.

We didn't see any of that in the W reverse grid race, are you claiming that F1 drivers are at a lower level then the W series?

Qualifying only tests speed over 1 lap (3 times), a reverse grid would test racecraft, both are skills that a wdc should possess in great amounts, but look at Vettel and Rosberg who both struggle in racecraft but were still able to win championships with cars that they could qualify on pole and cruise on sunday without passing or defending against even 1 other car the entire weekend.

Turn Fp3 into a reverse wdc position grid sprint race.

Keep qually as it is, combine the results of both to form the grid for the gp.

That way drivers are tested in both 1 lap speed and also racecraft, passing and defending, every single race.

[Phil]

a reverse grid would test racecraft, both are skills that a wdc should possess in great amounts,

Not in a non-spec series it doesnt.

[El Scorchio]

No. I’m not claiming that at all. Going by that logic there should never be any crashes in F1. What I would suggest is that the stakes are higher and the drivers are more ruthless and aggressive in F1 which will inevitably lead to more contact as no one wants to yield. All the drivers in the top cars will inevitably have to put their cars at risk to get through the field as quickly as possible to maximise their chances on the Sunday, and those toward the front will defend their position very fiercely. I think you’ll see a lot more incidents like Leclerc and Hamilton. It’s inevitable when you have the ‘best’ drivers in the ‘best’ cars stuck behind slower opposition regularly. Especially on tracks not easy to overtake on. Hungary or Monaco will be either a painful procession or total carnage.

Your suggestion for FP3 is a decent one, though. I agree there could be a test of all attributes to feed into qualifying position. But it still doesn’t really change my mind in that they are trying to fix something that only broke once. And it’s an extreme measure. As I said, I suspect it’s largely commercially and revenue driven. Qualifying as it is, is still exciting. Sometimes moreso than the race that follows it. Even Monza was exciting as a one off, but it can’t happen regularly.

[dans79]

a reverse grid would test racecraft, both are skills that a wdc should possess in great amounts,

Not in a non-spec series it doesnt.

I have never understood why so many fans don't understand the fundamental differences between a formula/design series, and a spec series.

[ENGINE TUNER]

a reverse grid would test racecraft, both are skills that a wdc should possess in great amounts,

Not in a non-spec series it doesnt.

What does F1 not being a spec series have to do with drivers knowing how to both pass and defend cleanly?

A reverse wdc grid would indeed test racecraft.

[ENGINE TUNER]

No. I’m not claiming that at all. Going by that logic there should never be any crashes in F1. What I would suggest is that the stakes are higher and the drivers are more ruthless and aggressive in F1 which will inevitably lead to more contact as no one wants to yield. All the drivers in the top cars will inevitably have to put their cars at risk to get through the field as quickly as possible to maximise their chances on the Sunday, and those toward the front will defend their position very fiercely. I think you’ll see a lot more incidents like Leclerc and Hamilton. It’s inevitable when you have the ‘best’ drivers in the ‘best’ cars stuck behind slower opposition regularly. Especially on tracks not easy to overtake on. Hungary or Monaco will be either a painful procession or total carnage.

The FIA need to do there job and uphold the driving standards and rules rather than this idiotic and unsafe "let them crash" nonsense philosophy. Harshly penalize the habitual crashers, make the cars and tires easier to follow and battle with, Narrower, lighter, shorter 1000hp karts.

Your suggestion for FP3 is a decent one, though. I agree there could be a test of all attributes to feed into qualifying position. But it still doesn’t really change my mind in that they are trying to fix something that only broke once. And it’s an extreme measure. As I said, I suspect it’s largely commercially and revenue driven. Qualifying as it is, is still exciting. Sometimes moreso than the race that follows it. Even Monza was exciting as a one off, but it can’t happen regularly.

The suggestion of a reverse sprint race did not only come about because of monza qually, they have been discussing it for years. The track promoters have been begging F1 for more action on Saturday for years to increase ticket sales and Saturday attendance. Most Saturday tickets that have been bought and paid for go unused because very little action goes down. That is why the whole nonsense "knock out qually" came about at the last hour before the season a couple years back. Fp3 being switched to a reverse wdc position grid sprint race, 45min +1 lap or so would massively increase saturday attendance and tv viewership.

Qually is exciting yes, but the races many times aren't because they are lined up from fastest to slowest. Giving the faster cars a head start was always a bad idea for the race. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, they should be able to get thru lap 1 without a pile up even with a reversed speed geid.

[dans79]

What does F1 not being a spec series have to do with drivers knowing how to both pass and defend cleanly?

Because In a formula series the cars are not designed for close racing. They are designed to yield the best lap time.

A reverse sprint race in Monaco for example would be ridiculous. A Williams would start P1 and finish p1 as long as the driver didn't screw up.