Changes To Qualifying

[dans79]

Reverse championship doesn't really penalise anyone over a season. Or rather, they all get penalised equally, as whoever benefits at first gets pushed down, and then in the end it's whoever can recover most places over the season is champion. Over 22 races it's completely fair, just measuring a slightly different set of skills from the current setup

I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't hold water. Some tracks are significantly harder to pass on than others, so its not completely fair over a season.

Forcing the championship leader to start at the back in Monaco, Hungary, Singapore, etc is ridiculous. Reverse grids is over the top artificial drama, to attract fair weather fans.

[ENGINE TUNER]

The idea is that the grid for the qualifying race is a reverse grid. The actual race grid is the result of the qualifying race. Thus it's important to finish high up in the qualifying grid in order to get a good start position in the actual, points-paying, race.

I think we'll see carnage in the qualifying race as the slow guys at the front basically block the guys behind. The idea is that it'll give racing, but it won't. Here's why: The guys at the front of the Q-race are only just a bit slower than those immediately behind them. They, in turn are only a bit slower than those behind them. So there will be a road block of cars jostling at the front and in the mid field. The cars at the back - the ones expected to be the title contenders - will be at a very real risk of damage / DNF trying to pass that road block. The likes of Grosjean, Magnussen, Stroll etc. are a liability on a race track at the best of times. Stick them in a bunch in front of the real contenders and they'll be driving in to people to try to stay in front.

I predict that if they do actually run with this stupid idea, it'll be scrapped within a few races. Or the stewards will start to crack down on stuff that they've spent the last couple of years trying to ignore. It's going to be most unseemly and will make F1 a bigger mockery than the Monza Q3 issue ever did.

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

The stewards definitely need to crack down in the stupid driving we see week in and week out. This "let them race" nonsense is ruining the actual racing. Look how vettel pushed gasly off track, Kvyat divebombed Kimi out of the race and several other people taken out of contention because the stewards are both stupid and lazy.
If certain F1 drivers can't keep it clean starting from anywhere on the grid, then they shouldn't be F1 drivers.

[Big Tea]

is that your preference or have you seen it somewhere? Sky for example is saying championship order

I thought I had read it, but looked at the likely suspects an can not find it. Either someone on TV said it or I am mistaken soz.

I did think I was sure, but it may be an age thing

it took me a few goes to find it, I think a lot of the media are afraid of being mistaken too! But as far as i can think championship order is the one that works, over a season

Been giving it some thought, and 'whoever it was' ( ) said of the 'random draw' method that once your car had been drawn at that number it would be removed from your rota, so each car would start once in each position.
MAY have been the guys on Sky, but not sure.

[dans79]

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

The W series is a spec series.

The car is aerodynamically simple, and also has a power output less than a lot of road cars (270 HP). It short it's a completely different ball game and not comparable to F1.

[izzy]

I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't hold water. Some tracks are significantly harder to pass on than others, so its not completely fair over a season.

Forcing the championship leader to start at the back in Monaco, Hungary, Singapore, etc is ridiculous. Reverse grids is over the top artificial drama, to attract fair weather fans.

oh fair point, but as long as there are several hard-to-pass circuits not just one it's not too bad. yes they'll have to do something else at Monaco, like sprinklers imo, but otherwise this is for 2021 not the current cars so even Hungary and Singapore should be viable for top cars to pass some midfielders. And the main protagonists will be in a similar position after a few races so it'll be the same for them more or less, unless one of them is a better racer...

It is to make it more exciting, by not starting the main race in speed order. it's not more artificial than speed order. Speed Order. If you were trying to think of the most stupid order to start a race in, what would it be? That's right!!!

[izzy]

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

yes and the reverse W Series race was by miles the best race of the season! Lots of battling and passing, even in a spec series

[izzy]

Been giving it some thought, and 'whoever it was' ( ) said of the 'random draw' method that once your car had been drawn at that number it would be removed from your rota, so each car would start once in each position.
MAY have been the guys on Sky, but not sure.

oh that might fix it

[Just_a_fan]

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

Does the W series have drivers like Grosjean, Magnusson, Kvyat etc? These guys could have a car crash whilst lying in bed!

[Just_a_fan]

I thought I had read it, but looked at the likely suspects an can not find it. Either someone on TV said it or I am mistaken soz.

I did think I was sure, but it may be an age thing

it took me a few goes to find it, I think a lot of the media are afraid of being mistaken too! But as far as i can think championship order is the one that works, over a season

Been giving it some thought, and 'whoever it was' ( ) said of the 'random draw' method that once your car had been drawn at that number it would be removed from your rota, so each car would start once in each position.
MAY have been the guys on Sky, but not sure.

I suggested just that on this forum t'other day.

[dans79]

It is to make it more exciting, by not starting the main race in speed order.

It's already exciting, and I really don't have anything positive to say about the type of people the powers that be are trying to attract with this gimmick.

it's not more artificial than speed order. Speed Order. If you were trying to think of the most stupid order to start a race in, what would it be? That's right!!!

As someone who was a high runner when I was young, I find anything other than the fastest person in P1 infuriating. Honestly I think a lot of this comes back to European social customs.

[izzy]

It's already exciting, and I really don't have anything positive to say about the type of people the powers that be are trying to attract with this gimmick.

As someone who was a high runner when I was young, I find anything other than the fastest person in P1 infuriating. Honestly I think a lot of this comes back to European social customs.

cmon, some races are exciting and some aren't, it's not about categories of people. In running you all start equal don't you, more or less, in motor racing that's not possible. So what order do you start in? Qualifying is one system, reverse championship order is another system. Neither of them is a gimmick.

They have particular effects, like one starts the race in approximately SPEED ORDER already, and one starts them in the opposite so that, at the end of the season, the winner is the one who's done the most clean passing. It's not a gimmick it's a different system. They both measure excellence, but different versions and with different levels of excitement

[Just_a_fan]

It is to make it more exciting, by not starting the main race in speed order.

It's already exciting, and I really don't have anything positive to say about the type of people the powers that be are trying to attract with this gimmick.

it's not more artificial than speed order. Speed Order. If you were trying to think of the most stupid order to start a race in, what would it be? That's right!!!

As someone who was a high runner when I was young, I find anything other than the fastest person in P1 infuriating. Honestly I think a lot of this comes back to European social customs.

Nope. I think it comes down to (US) marketing people looking for a gimmick to sell an outdated product. The reality is that F1 is coming to the end of its time as a highly popular sporting event. I think it'll slip back to being just those at the track watching, along with some highlights / local race shown locally.

[ENGINE TUNER]

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

The W series is a spec series.

The car is aerodynamically simple, and also has a power output less than a lot of road cars (270 HP). It short it's a completely different ball game and not comparable to F1.

So what? Reverse grid is more suited to F1 than a spec series since there is less car effect in a spec series.

The power is variable by the drivers right foot, Brundle reminds us every race. The aero regs are changing. None of that matters in the least. The fact stands that giving the faster cars a head start is absurd if you actually want good competition on track and action on the screen.

F1 promoters are desperately begging for F1 to do something to increase the spectator numbers on Saturday(that's how/why we good the idiotic knock out qually at the 11th hour) . Qually, as great as it is, is really only about 20 minutes of real on track action, most Saturday tickets which are purchased go unused.
A Saturday reverse wdc position grid sprint race would bring people to the track, eyes to the screen, keep the championship close for the whole season even with 1 team domination, and give us a proper driver champion who can pass and defend cleanly, not just start from pole and cruise.

[ENGINE TUNER]

W series had a reverse grid no race, no major collisions. Are you claiming that the W series has a higher driver level than F1?

Does the W series have drivers like Grosjean, Magnusson, Kvyat etc? These guys could have a car crash whilst lying in bed!

A reverse grid sprint race would help get rid of the crashers sooner, but more importantly the stewards need to do their jobs and this foolish "let them crash" nonsense has to go.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I thought I had read it, but looked at the likely suspects an can not find it. Either someone on TV said it or I am mistaken soz.

I did think I was sure, but it may be an age thing

it took me a few goes to find it, I think a lot of the media are afraid of being mistaken too! But as far as i can think championship order is the one that works, over a season

Been giving it some thought, and 'whoever it was' ( ) said of the 'random draw' method that once your car had been drawn at that number it would be removed from your rota, so each car would start once in each position.
MAY have been the guys on Sky, but not sure.

That is unfair because being last at Monaco is not the same as being last in Monza. If you have a reverse grid it must be for everyone at all races.

Replace fp3 with a reverse wdc position grid sprint race, 45 min +1 lap and combine it's results with qualifying as it currently is to establish the grid for the grand prix.

Yes the cars need to be smaller, narrower, lighter, shorter, the aero needs to be cleaner and tires needs to be better in order for this to fully work, but it is possible and it would be fantastic.